Overloaded swimming pool lighting

Tidy Max · Jan 23, 2015

How do chaps.

I have been doing a shambles of a job at a local country club. I am unfortunately working directly for a builder and he asked me to have a look at the pool lighting as they wanted to know whether the lamps had gone or if there was an issue.

As always every door was locked, no idea where the circuit is switched from let alone fed from. So i opened up the 'ip rated' covers around the pool.... :ack2:

Guessing at the size of the flex these must be a 200-300w fitting. The flex appears to be a 4-6mm HO7N, i have no idea on the csa of the supplying cable due to how burnt/rusted/corroded it is. Judging by the way the farthest 2 lights are still running i think i can see which way the circuit must of been wired.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Overloaded swimming pool lighting

Darkwood · Jan 23, 2015

These look more like incorrect termination having the joint housed in a high temp' zone behind the unit, that or poor design of fitting, I'd be scrapping these as housings are cracked, seals have gone etc etc - enjoy

Tidy Max · Jan 23, 2015

Definitely scrapping the housings. Might scrap the job to be honest because its way more effort than its worth. The IP enclosures are 1.5m away from the lights so its not heat dissipating from the lights thats buggered the cable. Water ingress is clearly an issue though.

The cables also feel hot to the touch!

telectrix · Jan 23, 2015

make toasties.

seriously. looks like you have 2 problems. overloading of the cable and water ingress.

Leesparkykent · Jan 23, 2015

Tidy Max said:
Definitely scrapping the housings. Might scrap the job to be honest because its way more effort than its worth. The IP enclosures are 1.5m away from the lights so its not heat dissipating from the lights thats buggered the cable. Water ingress is clearly an issue though.

The cables also feel hot to the touch!

Stick in a heavy price. If you get the job bonus if you don't you haven't lost anything.

telectrix · Jan 23, 2015

Leesparkykent said:
Stick in a heavy price. If you get the job bonus if you don't you haven't lost anything.

like it.

Engineer54 · Jan 23, 2015

Conventional swimming pool lamps typically come in 100W and 300W and the enclosures are more often than not manufactured from a chloride/chemical resistant plastic. It's been years since i've seen high quality stainless steel enclosure for pool light. The other thing is, that most enclosures are what is know as ''wet niche'' fittings, they are not sealed, that hold both the lamp and an extended cable length to enable the lamps IP connection to be worked on at the poolside..... Connections to the fittings are via a pool surround IP connection box with a conduit connect to the fitting. Each lamp is generally supplied by it's own TX via 4mm/6mm (depending on length) cable though sometimes you will see a single TX supplying 2 fittings via two separate runs of cable from the control panel. The main problems encountered with these 12V pool lamps is that they pull a fair old current (especially the 300W lamps) and any loose connection can burn away connections and insulation alike...

It's a relatively easy job to replace lamps and fitting fronts. Many manufacturers can supply replacement fronts. The brown stuff that can look like rust, can in fact be a chemical reaction with water that is derived from an undesirable water source or even brown algae....

Edit... Looking at those poolside connection boxes, it looks as if the IP rating has been lost. I never use those types of connectors in these boxes, always use plain butt crimps with initial heat shrink tube followed by adhesive lined heat shrink to completely seal the connections....

Tidy Max · Jan 23, 2015

The IP rating has definitely been lost. I think a mixture of excessive heat and screwdriver happy lid prying are to blame!

The hotel manager contacted me to today to discuss moving forward so i have just composed an email and attached the images explaining the situation. I am back onsite on Monday evening so i will do a bit more investigating. I can actually access the room where the supply is on Monday!

I would normally price myself out of a job like this as mentioned however it is a rather well known hotel/spa that has clearly run into disrepair, the owners are new and are clearly keen to revamp it so there could be a good chunk of work in this for me

As always thanks for the replies, i will let you know how i get on

trev · Jan 23, 2015

Leesparkykent said:
Stick in a heavy price. If you get the job bonus if you don't you haven't lost anything.

You sure you're not a Geordie?

Adam W · Jan 23, 2015

There are specialist pool building companies who will replace the enclosure, then you just come along, pull the cable in and connect it up.

Simlec · Jan 23, 2015

On the other end of scales. Mate sent me pic yesterday & was still working before they disconnected it from a freezer.

Jay Sparks · Jan 23, 2015

Only way you can overload a pool is if you have too many people in it doing aquasize!!!lol
Now I am not saying it's to do with fat people.................but you wouldn't find skinny people overloading a pool!!lol

Jay

Engineer54 · Jan 23, 2015

Adam W said:
There are specialist pool building companies who will replace the enclosure, then you just come along, pull the cable in and connect it up.

To actually replace the ''niche'' lamp enclose and connection box will involve breaking out a substantial amount of concrete and tiles, that would be the very last resort...

Adam W · Jan 24, 2015

Engineer54 said:
To actually replace the ''niche'' lamp enclose and connection box will involve breaking out a substantial amount of concrete and tiles, that would be the very last resort...

Really? We had a couple of connection boxes and an underwater fitting replaced in our outdoor pool a couple of months ago; it didn't seem to take the guys very long at all.
Fortunately they were there doing some retiling anyway.

Tidy Max · Jan 24, 2015

The box seems to be about 150-200mm deep, so i would assume it has adhesive all around, i would give stitching and chisling a go providing the customer pays for the time.... and replacement tiles in the surrounding area for when i throw the lumpy in a fit of rage haha