Do maintained emergency lights in communal area need keyswitch

Eddiesparks · Mar 1, 2015

This sounds like a daft question but i am doing an install that requires lighting in the common area and of course emergency escape lighting.

I am thinking of installing something like this which I assume requires a perm live, a neutral and earth to each (can't see a need for three core plus earth for these but maybe I am wrong! The integral sensor means they only need a perm live right?!

They have integral sensor so they come on when people go near them and they also work as emergency lights. My question is firstly, have i got the above all correct and also would i need a keyswitch at source to test them (surely the mcb would do the same job in this case?!) or would you know they are working because the lamps are working in normal operation.

Apologies for my ignorance in this,

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTPMESW.html

Thanks people

chrisclose · Mar 1, 2015

I would always put a keyswitch... many buildings use self testing procedures and many places won't allow their staff to enter electrical boards or switchrooms so a separate key switch is, in most in cases the best option from what I have come across so far.

tazz · Mar 1, 2015

Totally incorrect.....Easiest way to do this is using 3 core T+E. From db take 2 core T&E to em test switch, then to first pir sensor. From then on 3 core T&E to every polo fitting weather em Polo or just normal polo fitting, and into every additional pir sensor on the circuit. Each pir sensor will be perm L, N & SWL, each em Polo will be L, N & SWL, every non em polo will be L linked, and SWL, N connected.

Eddiesparks · Mar 1, 2015

ok it cant hurt can it really?!

More importantly do i have the wiring right then: T&E from CU to keyswitch, T&E from keyswitch (single pole, neutrals joined - "2 plate style") to first light, T&E from first light to 2nd light etc?

tazz · Mar 1, 2015

Yes it can, without constant L, the Polo will stay lit and the batteries will discharge.....??
Are your sure your up to doing this life saving work...?

tazz · Mar 1, 2015

Hopefully this will explain better.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Do maintained emergency lights in communal area need keyswitch

Eddiesparks · Mar 1, 2015

tazz you misunderstood me, didnt see your post before my 2nd one.

I was saying couldnt hurt to put keyswitch in.

Regarding what you say - i am installing 5 polo emergency fittings only, they have integral sensors so no need for external PIRs in my understanding. I understand full well that with external PIRs you need to use three core for PL,SL and N. And i understand what you are saying with linking perm lives in non emergency ones etc.

From my questions it is clear i am not a complete muppet, i do know a bit about this and i am well aware to leave things alone which i am totally clueless about but not installed an emergency fitting of this type with integral sensor before.

Do you see where I am coming from on this?! try and be nice - i am just asking a question mate

Eddiesparks · Mar 1, 2015

ps thanks for the diagram, as i said i do understand that but I am unfamiliar with sensor switched emergency fittings. Perhaps i am misunderstanding what the light i put a link to actually does?

Eddiesparks · Mar 1, 2015

This sheet seems to suggest that it does indeed have an integral PIR so no need for external PIRs and therefore three core.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/LEDlite_Polo/LED_Polo Sensor Instruction Sheet.pdf

Any other wisdom on this peoples?

Thanks as always

Adam W · Mar 1, 2015

As I understand it there won't be a functional switch in the circuit apart from maybe a keyswitch for testing (by doing this you're testing the batteries, not the lamp). The switch would effectively be the PIR, which is integral to the fitting, so you'd only need a permanent live going to the fitting. If the fitting needs a secondary live you could link out the permanent live in the fitting.

The only thing you might want to consider is putting them on 2 separate circuits so when you test one there is still light in the corridor.

tazz · Mar 1, 2015

Sorry, now you have explained, yes I do....Have used polo`s alot in nursing homes....but now I see the built in sensors, which I not a fan of, due to individual lights coming on instead of complete corridors or sections. Personally I would use separate pirs on entrance areas, and buy polo standard units. The polo`s are good units, here`s a photo of them in operation.

Adam W · Mar 1, 2015

tazz said:
Sorry, now you have explained, yes I do....Have used polo`s alot in nursing homes....but now I see the built in sensors, which I not a fan of, due to individual lights coming on instead of complete corridors or sections. Personally I would use separate pirs on entrance areas, and buy polo standard units. The polo`s are good units, here`s a photo of them in operation.
View attachment 28175

Did they replace 1200x600 recessed fluorescents by any chance?

tazz · Mar 1, 2015

Actually No, the replaced 14 month old D fittings, which kept failing and burning out.....I don`t know why the ceiling tiles are mismatched.....The reason I didn`t use internal sensors, was so each of these long corridors would come on in complete sections, with no blind spots.