Well pump burning out

assegayer · Apr 21, 2015

Hey folks

just wondering if any of you could give a possibility in what is happening. basically i have some family in the middle east they moved their for quite some time now. The power in this country isnt really stable for example it keeps turning off maybe twice a month thne when it comes back on it seems to coem so powerful that it frys all equipment in peoples houses like fridges, microwave , air condition etc etc. surge maybe?

They have a well with a pump however every so often the pump blows out or burns out after the power turns back on im jsut wondering is there anything i could purchase and send to them for a qualified electrician over there to install that can prevent this form happening..i dont know maybe like a main surge breaker or something if they exist...

Ps the country doesnt have surge breakers only simple mcbs which is why i want to try send them somthing.

thanks in advance

Marvo · Apr 21, 2015

assegayer said:
.....also say the problem was because of overvoltage would something like this work for the pump or any other equipment

AC Power Surge Protector 230Volt| MeteorElectrical.com

There's a difference between over-voltage and a surge. A surge protector can't protect against prolonged overvoltage. Protecting against overvoltage is easy, you just need an over-voltage relay that shuts off the supply when it occurs. Preventing overvoltage is an entirely different and more expensive problem, the easiest and probably cheapest way for a domestic appliance would be a ferroresonant UPS.

assegayer · Apr 21, 2015

Marvo said:
There's a difference between over-voltage and a surge. A surge protector can't protect against prolonged overvoltage. Protecting against overvoltage is easy, you just need an over-voltage relay that shuts off the supply when it occurs. Preventing overvoltage is an entirely different and more expensive problem, the easiest and probably cheapest way for a domestic appliance would be a ferroresonant UPS.[/QUOTE)

so what was that breaker that i provided in the link then...i know i sound incompetent its just i havnt really dealt with surges and things like that because in the uk its generally stable in that area...and the so called electricians in the middle east havent spent a day in college on there lives...thanks for the advice

assegayer · Apr 21, 2015

also could you maybe if you have time give us a link to a relay..and how is it wired up is it wired to the two tails ot just a seperate circuit etc..thanks

Marvo · Apr 21, 2015

The item you linked to is a surge protector. It's a device that starts conducting between L+E (or L+N depending on configuration) when there's a voltage spike with a value higher than the clamping voltage of the device. Obviously because it conducts between L+E it can only tolerate spikes of very short duration, it can't deal with prolonged overvoltage in fact this would cause it to fail completely.

This is a voltage relay. It can be wired with a contactor to disconnect the power if the voltage wanders out of predetermined limits.

assegayer · Apr 21, 2015

Marvo said:
The item you linked to is a surge protector. It's a device that starts conducting between L+E (or L+N depending on configuration) when there's a voltage spike with a value higher than the clamping voltage of the device. Obviously because it conducts between L+E it can only tolerate spikes of very short duration, it can't deal with prolonged overvoltage in fact this would cause it to fail completely.

This is a voltage relay. It can be wired with a contactor to disconnect the power if the voltage wanders out of predetermined limits.

sorry mate the link doesnt open

Marvo · Apr 21, 2015

Here's another link to a UK website; RM17UAS15 | OVER & UNDERVOLTAGE CONTROL 65-260VAC-DC | Schneider Electric

rapparee · Apr 21, 2015

assegayer said:
sorry mate the link doesnt open

It does it downloads a pdf file to your phone.

assegayer · Apr 21, 2015

Marvo said:
Here's another link to a UK website; RM17UAS15 | OVER & UNDERVOLTAGE CONTROL 65-260VAC-DC | Schneider Electric

thanks for that mate it opens. so them nobs on that breaker are for the voltages you want it to cut out on...also would this just go on the cus bus bar or how would you set it up to make sure that the output of that is the feed for the pump
thanks

Marvo · Apr 21, 2015

Yep, it's not really a 'breaker' as such, it's a monitor with a built-in switch contact that could be used to operate the load direct if it's within the current limit of the contact otherwise the contact is used to operate a separate contactor which in turn switches the load current. The knobs are for setting the voltage limits and on some models the hysteresis/differential as well.

assegayer · Apr 21, 2015

Marvo said:
Yep, it's not really a 'breaker' as such, it's a monitor with a built-in switch contact that could be used to operate the load direct if it's within the current limit of the contact otherwise the contact is used to operate a separate contactor which in turn switches the load current. The knobs are for setting the voltage limits and on some models the hysteresis/differential as well.

its an expensive bit of kit aint it mate 100 quid. okay i dont want to drag on to much but as i said before in the house fridges, microwaves ovens etc all burn out quite frequently which is very expensive as you would know...if i was to install that providing that overvoltage is the problem it should sort it out, considering there are no other factors...

Marvo · Apr 22, 2015

assegayer said:
its an expensive bit of kit aint it mate 100 quid.

Yep, I warned you earlier that protecting against all the causes of poor power quality was going to be expensive and there's no guarantee that low voltage is the problem. Hence my initial far cheaper suggestion of the delay timer.

assegayer · Jun 27, 2015

Marvo said:
Yep, I warned you earlier that protecting against all the causes of poor power quality was going to be expensive and there's no guarantee that low voltage is the problem. Hence my initial far cheaper suggestion of the delay timer.

i know this is a late reply but once again the pump has burned out....to what you suggested does this wiring diagram look oright to you? made it on paint not the best drawing but hopefully understandable.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Well pump burning out

Richard Burns · Jun 27, 2015

You probably do not want to protect the timer with the same breaker as the pump as it may not have a suitable rating, perhaps something like this?

Leesparkykent · Jun 27, 2015

Richard Burns said:
You probably do not want to protect the timer with the same breaker as the pump as it may not have a suitable rating, perhaps something like this?

View attachment 29491

What program do you use to do your drawings Richard? They are always good.

Richard Burns · Jun 27, 2015

Leesparkykent said:
What program do you use to do your drawings Richard? They are always good.

I am afraid I use power point on the forum and save as a picture, not too technical!
They just tend to be sketches but can help to describe things more easily.
Thank you BTW.