New Solax Panels and Inverter breaker tripping all time

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

I recently got the system installed and was ok for a few weeks then came home to a fault, installers said due to thunder storms which i accepted as ok. Then week later same again with no storms. They have since put the breaker and rcd in a seperate box and said would be ok. Then same again tripping on breaker.
Engineer came out again and fitted a new breaker which was to cope with my panels performing well they said. Since then tripped 4 consecutive days. I am not electrically experienced and hence my reason im here to make sure i get someanswers. I have attached pictures of Inverted, wiring and the rcd box

Thanks in advance

Paul.M · Jul 14, 2015

Thread approved for posting. Please give help and advice like you always do gents

Leesparkykent · Jul 14, 2015

Is it the RCCB that's tripping?

davesparks · Jul 14, 2015

There is obviously a fault in the system, get the installers back to repair the fault.
Don't just keep in closing the breaker everytime it trips, without knowing what the fault is it may well damage the breaker

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

davesparks said:
There is obviously a fault in the system, get the installers back to repair the fault.
Don't just keep in closing the breaker everytime it trips, without knowing what the fault is it may well damage the breaker

They have beeh back 3 times, added the seperate box with the breaker in it and upped the rating of it to 20amp , see in the closeup pic with the small box its the breaker in middle with solar panel wrote on label above, thanks for reply

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

Picture 2 with pv label above keeps tripping :dizzy2:

davesparks · Jul 14, 2015

AWAKEFIELD720 said:
They have beeh back 3 times, added the seperate box with the breaker in it and upped the rating of it to 20amp , see in the closeup pic with the small box its the breaker in middle with solar panel wrote on label above, thanks for reply

Oh dear, I think they might be a bit short on actual understanding of what is happening.
I don't know enough about be PV to offer advice on what the fault may be, but I do know that MCBs don't trip for no reason. Something is causing an excess of current to flow, either a fault or I guess maybe a design flaw in their installation.
They need to come back and find the fault, I would suggest writing to them requesting that they attend to find and repair the fault or they pay for someone who knows what they are doing to carry this out. Possibly advise them that you will be contacting trading standards or their MCS registration body

SibertSolar · Jul 14, 2015

Not "obviously" a fault as such, although I agree with the advice davesparks. A 30mA trip limit with TL inverter, possible insulation resistance issues on DC strings, local loads sharing RCD (maybe) and earthing arrangement (if any) of the array frame, can easily nuisance trip.....

SibertSolar · Jul 14, 2015

Ah, just re-read and OP says it was the MCB tripping, not the RCD....apologies, ignore above

Leesparkykent · Jul 14, 2015

SibertSolar said:
Not "obviously" a fault as such, although I agree with the advice davesparks. A 30mA trip limit with TL inverter, possible insulation resistance issues on DC strings, local loads sharing RCD (maybe) and earthing arrangement (if any) of the array frame, can easily nuisance trip.....

Its the mcb that is tripping not the RCD.

edit: posted same time as SibertSolar

davesparks · Jul 14, 2015

SibertSolar said:
Not "obviously" a fault as such, although I agree with the advice davesparks. A 30mA trip limit with TL inverter, possible insulation resistance issues on DC strings, local loads sharing RCD (maybe) and earthing arrangement (if any) of the array frame, can easily nuisance trip.....

Nuisance tripping is still a fault.
The OP has stated that the MCB is operating, not the RCD, therefore there must be an overcurrent occurring

infinity · Jul 14, 2015

We hAve installed one of these with the same problem! Turns out it required a 20A MCB instead of the usual 16, no real reason why but it's in the manual for the installation.
It solved the problem

Leesparkykent · Jul 14, 2015

infinity said:
We hAve installed one of these with the same problem! Turns out it required a 20A MCB instead of the usual 16, no real reason why but it's in the manual for the installation.
It solved the problem

Its on a 20amp type B

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

Thats whatvthey did last time put a 20A mcb in, made it even worse, was 16 originally. They are coming back friday to replace the entire Inverter:uhoh2:. Good advice ontelling them about contacting mcs though as they seem to be guessing as much as me

Gavin A · Jul 14, 2015

bit harsh to be contacting MCS / their body at this stage in proceedings.

tbh it could simply be that the inverter isn't restricted to 16A as it should be (unless you have permission to generate more than 16A).

Solar's different to almost every other load other than maybe storage heaters in that it can operate at full capacity for maybe 6-8 hours at a time at the peak of summer, so it ends up on parts of the tripping time curve for MCBs that are almost never reached, so MCB's ratings shouldn't be too close to the max rating of the inverter or they will risk tripping at the peak of summer.

davesparks · Jul 14, 2015

Gavin A said:
bit harsh to be contacting MCS / their body at this stage in proceedings.

tbh it could simply be that the inverter isn't restricted to 16A as it should be (unless you have permission to generate more than 16A).

Solar's different to almost every other load other than maybe storage heaters in that it can operate at full capacity for maybe 6-8 hours at a time at the peak of summer, so it ends up on parts of the tripping time curve for MCBs that are almost never reached, so MCB's ratings shouldn't be too close to the max rating of the inverter or they will risk tripping at the peak of summer.

Not harsh at all, they've had 3 opportunities to identify and rectify the fault and have so far made what appear to be random guesses. 1- blame it on thunderstorm 2- move the mcb out of the board and in to a seperate enclosure 3- uprate the mcb. This sounds like sheer incompetence to me, especially if the person responsible is an engineer as stated above.

Solar is not a load at all it is a source of energy.

infinity · Jul 14, 2015

It could well be classed as a load in terms of how it works, just in reverse. The MCB can't detect polarity.
Gavin's knowledge in all things solar will far exceed yours.
He's correct with everything he says. There's no other domestic load designed to run at full load like an inverter can/ will.
Also, it seems the 'engineer' has taken steps to correct the fault. Sometimes it can be as simple as a faulty inverter, we can assume he has tested the circuit. Usually very simple being s radial, so has eliminated any other components at the same time.

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

Gavin A said:
bit harsh to be contacting MCS / their body at this stage in proceedings.

tbh it could simply be that the inverter isn't restricted to 16A as it should be (unless you have permission to generate more than 16A).

Solar's different to almost every other load other than maybe storage heaters in that it can operate at full capacity for maybe 6-8 hours at a time at the peak of summer, so it ends up on parts of the tripping time curve for MCBs that are almost never reached, so MCB's ratings shouldn't be too close to the max rating of the inverter or they will risk tripping at the peak of summer.

Im not going to yet, just in my back pocket if goes ---- up. Their customer service has been terrible though to much to explain. It has been generating loads they said highest they have seen on a 4kw system?. Shouldnt the 20A breaker has worked though ?what do you recomend

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

Spot on davesparks .. jst how i feel , i shouldnt be having to raise this question they are the competant installers and electricians not me

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

Could they try a higher rated mcb higher than 20A then to avoid new inverter install ?

davesparks · Jul 14, 2015

infinity said:
It could well be classed as a load in terms of how it works, just in reverse. The MCB can't detect polarity.

It cannot be classed as a load, it is a source of energy!
A load is a component or part of a electrical circuit which consumes electrical power, a source of energy is that part of a circuit which produces electrical power.
(Technically it is the conversion of energy from one form to another rather than consuming/producing power, but that is irrelevant to the point)

I'm sure he does know more about solar than me, but the point still remains that a specialist company has installed a system which does not function as intended and have repeatedly failed to rectify the situation.

matthunt · Jul 14, 2015

do you happen to know what your voltage is at home?

davesparks · Jul 14, 2015

Gavin A said:
Solar's different to almost every other load other than maybe storage heaters in that it can operate at full capacity for maybe 6-8 hours at a time at the peak of summer, so it ends up on parts of the tripping time curve for MCBs that are almost never reached, so MCB's ratings shouldn't be too close to the max rating of the inverter or they will risk tripping at the peak of summer.

This makes no sense, an mcb is rated to carry its full load current indefinately. The tripping curve will always be above it's rated current for its rated operating environment (ambient temp, altitude, humidity).
Do you have a graph of the output current of one of these inverters outputting at maximum?

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

I can acess graphy through wifi on inverter , il check what it says.... how will i know the voltage in my home .. excuse my lack of knowledge on this.. im a hydraulics engineer not this electrc black magic :smiley2:

matthunt · Jul 14, 2015

matthunt said:
do you happen to know what your voltage is at home?

reason I ask is that the inverter is close to your consumer unit, now if the installer has set the inverter to 262v (which is wrong) and a common misconception with some installers due to a high residential voltage then you could get higher currents generated.

davesparks · Jul 14, 2015

AWAKEFIELD720 said:
I can acess graphy through wifi on inverter , il check what it says.... how will i know the voltage in my home .. excuse my lack of knowledge on this.. im a hydraulics engineer not this electrc black magic :smiley2:

My comment about a graph was intended as a reply to the Gavin A
But if you can access a graph of current output in the hours leading up to and the point at which it trips that may be helpful in working out what's wrong.
Without measuring it you won't be able to tell your supply voltage, unless the inverter has the ability to tell you this?

matthunt · Jul 14, 2015

AWAKEFIELD720 said:
I can acess graphy through wifi on inverter , il check what it says.... how will i know the voltage in my home .. excuse my lack of knowledge on this.. im a hydraulics engineer not this electrc black magic :smiley2:

Yes you can check the output voltage and current though the wifi log

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

Output current is always peaking at below 15A, Voltage is 248.4v , never gome above 15A in graphs since install

davesparks · Jul 14, 2015

AWAKEFIELD720 said:
Output current is always peaking at below 15A, Voltage is 248.4v , never gome above 15A in graphs since install

Unfortunately we don't know how those current readings are taken, or what they actually represent. They may be averaged values over a sampling period, wheras a maximum value from each sampling period may tell a different story.

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 14, 2015

Il post the graphs of output voltage n output current tmorro you will make more sense than me

whinmoor · Jul 15, 2015

A few basic questions:

1. How many panels? What brand and wattage?

2. What model of Solax? - Check nameplate on side of inverter. Is it the "SL-TL3600" or "SL-TL3600T" or something different?

3. Has the installer checked the inverter is set up for UK usage? If not, suggest it.

4. Has the installer tried a different mini consumer unit? Maybe a different brand might work. Suggest it.

5. If it's a TL3600 or TL3600T, has the installer used 4mm AC cable and a 25A MCB as recommended in the installation instructions? If not, suggest it.

6. Has the installer offered to try a different brand of inverter? If not, suggest it.

Worcester · Jul 15, 2015

@whinmoor

25A, that's a very unusual recommendation, any idea why that high?
Would tend to indicate that it's not G83 compliant.

davesparks · Jul 15, 2015

Worcester said:
@whinmoor

25A, that's a very unusual recommendation, any idea why that high?
Would tend to indicate that it's not G83 compliant.

Looking at the snapshot of the instructions which has been posted if say it wasn't written by someone with a good knowledge of UK wiring practices or regulations!

whinmoor · Jul 15, 2015

Worcester said:
@whinmoor

25A, that's a very unusual recommendation, any idea why that high?
Would tend to indicate that it's not G83 compliant.

I don't know. Suggests to me they are worried about getting spikes well over 3.68kW and can't control or guarantee the limiting function in certain conditions. Could be that they are concerned when installers fit 5kW (or even more) of panels and use the inverter to cap at G83 levels.

Could be that it's a typo but I doubt it. I prefer the explanation above.

Probably a question for their technical team rather than a humble installer.

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 15, 2015

whinmoor said:
A few basic questions:

1. How many panels? What brand and wattage?

2. What model of Solax? - Check nameplate on side of inverter. Is it the "SL-TL3600" or "SL-TL3600T" or something different?

3. Has the installer checked the inverter is set up for UK usage? If not, suggest it.

4. Has the installer tried a different mini consumer unit? Maybe a different brand might work. Suggest it.

5. If it's a TL3600 or TL3600T, has the installer used 4mm AC cable and a 25A MCB as recommended in the installation instructions? If not, suggest it.

View attachment 29639

6. Has the installer offered to try a different brand of inverter? If not, suggest it.

Hi,

Number of panels - 16 - 2 x string of 8 = 4 kw system - Solax panels 250w

consumer unit ?? sorry I don't know what that is

they are using a 20A MCB that keeps tripping - Inverter model no il check at dinner time

il mention the uk usage thing thanks

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 15, 2015

How do I add the graph images ? cant see how to upload image like on original post ? only enter url which I don't want to do ? want to upload thumbnail ....

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 15, 2015

AWAKEFIELD720 said:
Hi,

Number of panels - 16 - 2 x string of 8 = 4 kw system - Solax panels 250w

consumer unit ?? sorry I don't know what that is

they are using a 20A MCB that keeps tripping - Inverter model no il check at dinner time

il mention the uk usage thing thanks

Its a TL-3600 ... should be a 25A MCB then not 16 or 20 like they have used ... can you send me the full document this is extracted from ? thanks

TedM · Jul 15, 2015

http://www.solaxuk.co.uk/download/SL-TL_Install_Manual.pdf

AWAKEFIELD720 · Jul 15, 2015

Thanks, just got it from Google. really strange that the maximum current output in the graphs I have are all below 16A yet its tripping on a 20A breaker ... Im very confused

jason121 · Jul 15, 2015

What about C rated MCB ??

AWAKEFIELD720

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