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Is this considered ring in general and/or by the regs?

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Discuss Is this considered ring in general and/or by the regs? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

J

JuniorSparky

Hi everyone,

I was asked to fix a messed up ring. The client doesn't want to tear apart everything and asked if it will comply with the regs if it is done like this - Let's say we have a ring with three points and a spur from each point. The point is that the three points on the ring will be actually three junction boxes (all accessible) and from each one there will be a run/spur to where the socket outlet will be.
It looks weird to me and not sure if I want to do it, but I can't see why it can't be done! I don't have so extensive experience like you all guys, so any thoughts will be appreciated!

Cheers
 
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i've always got mine to hand,

[ElectriciansForums.net] Is this considered ring in general and/or by the regs?
 
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JuniorSparky said:
Hi everyone,

I was asked to fix a messed up ring. The client doesn't want to tear apart everything and asked if it will comply with the regs if it is done like this - Let's say we have a ring with three points and a spur from each point. The point is that the three points on the ring will be actually three junction boxes (all accessible) and from each one there will be a run/spur to where the socket outlet will be.
It looks weird to me and not sure if I want to do it, but I can't see why it can't be done! I don't have so extensive experience like you all guys, so any thoughts will be appreciated!

Cheers
Click to expand...

Sounds like it was wired by a Pole
 
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Thanks guys. Yes, I'll do it myself. Yes, I do have a regs book. Yes, I thought about 1/more socket outlets ..... I feel embarrassed.. really embarrassed! Just opened to check the regs again and I saw the answer of my question was in front of my eyes! Basically I can suggest, depending of the location of these junction position that these can be FCUs and he can use double socket if he wants!

Thank you guys and sorry for wasting your time!

PS: :) well I don't know who did the installation, but he says that the whole house was done on one circuit breaker, having a ring to one big junction box and from there runs to each socket outlet!!!
 
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don't be embarrased to ask questions if you are still on a learning curve, as your screen name suggests. that's what us old farts are here for---- to help the young sprogs get it right. :90:
 
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JuniorSparky said:
Hi Let's say we have a ring with three points and a spur from each point. The point is that the three points on the ring will be actually three junction boxes (all accessible) and from each one there will be a run/spur to where the socket outlet will be.
Click to expand...

No that doesn't comply, you cannot have more spurs than you have points on the ring. As you have no points on the ring you cannot have any spurs.

What exactly is the situation now and what have you been asked to do?

For only 3 twin sockets you could just make it a 20A radial.


Once upon a time, when the ring final circuit was new, the above joint boxes was how it was often installed. But then the iee put a stop to it sometime in the 13th/14th edition era
 
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I'm interested why they put a stop to that method Dave? It would still have the same balanced current across the two legs of the supply, topographically it's still a ring final in that respect even to the point that if the junction boxes were sockets it would be compliant.
 
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Yes, I thought about that and as there will be just a few points I will suggest to him to use FCUs instead of junction boxes. This way will be fine.

The existing one was one ring for the whole house with just one big junction box on it and from there you have spurs to each location.

PS: Wasn't there a reg about length of the spur? I think there was something about no more than 3m, but I can't find it to double check that, so I may be wrong!
 
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JuniorSparky said:
Yes, I thought about that and as there will be just a few points I will suggest to him to use FCUs instead of junction boxes. This way will be fine.

The existing one was one ring for the whole house with just one big junction box on it and from there you have spurs to each location.

PS: Wasn't there a reg about length of the spur? I think there was something about no more than 3m, but I can't find it to double check that, so I may be wrong!
Click to expand...

Where will these FCUs be? That sounds like an even worse idea!

How can it be a ring if it had a big JB with spurs to each point?
 
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This is how it was described to me. I don't know how do you call a ring with one point and radials from that point!?
He says these junction points will be accessible - I haven't been there yet so I don't know if it will be in a floor box or somewhere else!
 
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JuniorSparky said:
This is how it was described to me. I don't know how do you call a ring with one point and radials from that point!?
He says these junction points will be accessible - I haven't been there yet so I don't know if it will be a floor box or somewhere else!
Click to expand...

It can't be a ring if it only has one point! It's more likely to be an old spider type radial circuit.

What exactly is going on here?
 
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I don't know. This is why I was asked to fix it!

Yes, I will go first to take a look before I start. He's far from me, so I'm getting as much info as I can before my visit!
 
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Sounds like a Spider ring or radial.
If it covers more than one floor, most likely a ring.
Don't take any notice of the one spur per point myth, as it's just a myth.
Spurs can be taken from any point on a ring, including the CU, as shown in Appendix 15.
 
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