New build 13Amp socket outlets

Not sure I've been called an anorak before.
Yes I do that & I get a little miffed when the helping hand for the day cant even seem to get a cable length in with out a twist here & there!

not clever said:

Not sure I've been called an anorak before.
Yes I do that & I get a little miffed when the helping hand for the day cant even seem to get a cable length in with out a twist here & there!

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Good for you Mate, the anorak bit included me.

I don't think doing this type of thing is being an anorak, I cannot say I've ever done it because I've only rarely worked on a domestic new build and then only really small extentions. However I've always lined up the T&Es for lighting circuits coming through the back of a cieling rose to make the final connection of a 3 plate cieling rose easier.

I think I would say this is Learning Tricks of the Trade? Part of Good Preperation, Forward Planning? If ever I was to work on a New Build, although unlikely since I'm retired I would definately think about doing this.

Barrie Patrick said:

I don't think doing this type of thing is being an anorak, I cannot say I've ever done it because I've only rarely worked on a domestic new build and then only really small extentions. However I've always lined up the T&Es for lighting circuits coming through the back of a cieling rose to make the final connection of a 3 plate cieling rose easier.

I think I would say this is Learning Tricks of the Trade? Part of Good Preperation, Forward Planning? If ever I was to work on a New Build, although unlikely since I'm retired I would definately think about doing this.

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Perhaps anorak was the wrong choice of words, let's change it to good tradesman/woman

And then you replace the sockets 20 years later and it's all been in vain because they are the wrong way round....

hightower said:

And then you replace the sockets 20 years later and it's all been in vain because they are the wrong way round....

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Yeah but you aint thinking about replacing sockets 20 years in the future are you? have you been watching a box set of "Back to the Future?) get real Hightower

Pete999 said:

Yeah but you aint thinking about replacing sockets 20 years in the future are you? have you been watching a box set of "Back to the Future?) get real Hightower

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No mate, I'm more into sarcastic comedies but evidently some people aren't.

hightower said:

No mate, I'm more into sarcastic comedies but evidently some people aren't.

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Oh yes I am only kidding you Mate, been around to long not to enjoy sarcastic comedies

re: OP. see the point, but how about these sockets we're getting where you need to take it to the window and get a magnifying glass out to read which terminal is which? schneider ones are those that come to mind. you just can't see the L , N, and E markings.

I only really bother to do this with shower switches, where space is ridiculous, especially with 10:00mm's. With socket outlet back boxes, I rarely use anything less than the 35mm ones.

telectrix said:

re: OP. see the point, but how about these sockets we're getting where you need to take it to the window and get a magnifying glass out to read which terminal is which? schneider ones are those that come to mind. you just can't see the L , N, and E markings.

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You getting old Mate?, but see what you mean, back in the dim and distant things were made a bit better and you didn't have the choice you have now.

I don't do T+E but yes always arrange the cables in the right orientation if possible to reduce twists and crossovers behind a fitting. Also if possible choose the best entry point(s) to make the cables sweep round smoothly, so that you can leave as large a service loop as possible without making it cramped or difficult to push the fitting home. With a standard 2G box you can often get 8-10" of spare length in neatly, so that new fittings with opposite terminal layouts can be fitted many times before the cables are too short.

On the same lines, when making cables with round-bodied connectors such as CEE17s, make sure to put the plug / socket on the right end of the cable, so that the cores follow around the body in the same order as the pins. With a 13A plug, if you point the L core into its terminal, depending on which end of the lay you have either the E or N will lie on top of the other as they head to the left. Wire the bottom one first and it's neat either way. But with a 5-pin 63A on H07 it doesn't look right when they're crossed. Of course, if someone did the other end of the cable, usually a distro where it makes no difference, you invariably end up with the wrong end of the cable for your plug layout.

This all becomes much more important where there are more cores and less space, and the best example I can think of is the Socapex 19-pin connector that is one of the standards in performance lighting. This is normally used with 18 core 2.5 mm² or 1.5mm² flex, giving six independent 10A or 16A circuits each with a CPC (the CPCs are usually commoned together though).

There is a standard pinout and in YY a standard core numbering and you will see below that the two go together perfectly if you have the right end of the cable. If you get lumbered with the wrong end, lots of pairs and groups of cores have to cross over. The pinout puts L-N pairs around the outer ring and E's in the inner ring forming triangles with their L & N, ensuring that the loaded conductors are all on the outer layer of the cable for best heat dissipation, and two L pins are never next to each other to maximise creepage distance in the connector in case there's 400V between them.

You'll spot that the solder bucket connections are all sleeved because insulation between cores has to be impeccable in a Socapex cable. Both fan-in and fan-out 'spider' cables are used to individual 3-pin plugs and sockets, so you can touch the pins of say channel 1's plug, while channel 2 is plugged in and live. You can also see that for the straight layout I've made the L & N cores approach the connector 90° round from their pin positions, to make that gentle curved approach that takes up any minimal differences in length so that when the plug body goes on and the clamp is tightened, nothing can be under tension. The CPCs do similar in the opposite direction - there will always be a random relationship between the positions of the two layers in the cable, I try to give them equal amounts of slack before they meet up at the terminals.

I always intend to do it Pete, but invariably I often forget until it comes to 2nd fixing! Shower cables I always do as they are otherwise a complete --- to do.

Hager sockets have lovely clear L -N - CPC markings. And the Schneider GET flat plate range have colour coding clearly marked. Although these are much pricier than standard plastic. Never used their standard range so dunno about them.

Lucien Nunes said:

I don't do T+E but yes always arrange the cables in the right orientation if possible to reduce twists and crossovers behind a fitting. Also if possible choose the best entry point(s) to make the cables sweep round smoothly, so that you can leave as large a service loop as possible without making it cramped or difficult to push the fitting home. With a standard 2G box you can often get 8-10" of spare length in neatly, so that new fittings with opposite terminal layouts can be fitted many times before the cables are too short.

On the same lines, when making cables with round-bodied connectors such as CEE17s, make sure to put the plug / socket on the right end of the cable, so that the cores follow around the body in the same order as the pins. With a 13A plug, if you point the L core into its terminal, depending on which end of the lay you have either the E or N will lie on top of the other as they head to the left. Wire the bottom one first and it's neat either way. But with a 5-pin 63A on H07 it doesn't look right when they're crossed. Of course, if someone did the other end of the cable, usually a distro where it makes no difference, you invariably end up with the wrong end of the cable for your plug layout.

This all becomes much more important where there are more cores and less space, and the best example I can think of is the Socapex 19-pin connector that is one of the standards in performance lighting. This is normally used with 18 core 2.5 mm² or 1.5mm² flex, giving six independent 10A or 16A circuits each with a CPC (the CPCs are usually commoned together though).

There is a standard pinout and in YY a standard core numbering and you will see below that the two go together perfectly if you have the right end of the cable. If you get lumbered with the wrong end, lots of pairs and groups of cores have to cross over. The pinout puts L-N pairs around the outer ring and E's in the inner ring forming triangles with their L & N, ensuring that the loaded conductors are all on the outer layer of the cable for best heat dissipation, and two L pins are never next to each other to maximise creepage distance in the connector in case there's 400V between them.

You'll spot that the solder bucket connections are all sleeved because insulation between cores has to be impeccable in a Socapex cable. Both fan-in and fan-out 'spider' cables are used to individual 3-pin plugs and sockets, so you can touch the pins of say channel 1's plug, while channel 2 is plugged in and live. You can also see that for the straight layout I've made the L & N cores approach the connector 90° round from their pin positions, to make that gentle curved approach that takes up any minimal differences in length so that when the plug body goes on and the clamp is tightened, nothing can be under tension. The CPCs do similar in the opposite direction - there will always be a random relationship between the positions of the two layers in the cable, I try to give them equal amounts of slack before they meet up at the terminals.

View attachment 30990View attachment 30991View attachment 30992View attachment 30993View attachment 30994

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Picture numero three is a piece of art Lucien!

PS I sent you a message a couple of weeks back about an old MEM contactor; yours if you want it.

Neil