Rubber cable

APE37 · May 23, 2016

Hi guys,
after a bit of advice from the more experienced guys if poss.
My neighbour wants a consumer unit change, but the cables are rubber and metal light fittings. I have recommended a rewire but it has fell on deaf ears. I am just wondering who would carry on with a change of consumer unit as I have spoken to another electrician that I see in the wholesalers and they said as long as the cables are sound and if no earth in the light cables, the lights are double insulated you can carry on with the change. Also other pre tests carried out as well and issue certification at the end. Just wondering how many of you would side with me or the other guy, as I feel that it is needed to be rewired but he other guy says if I put double insulated lights up and switches, there is no need to rewire. Sorry if this seems a silly question but I have not been in this situation before as I do new installs really and the only other time I have worked with rubber it fell apart on me when taking out on a job and so I am very reluctant to work on it, but at the same time I don't want to give wrong info to someone and say it needs a rewire if it don't. I would rather say I don't touch rubber and say look for another person and politely decline to do the job. If anyone can advise me I would b grateful.
thanks in advance.
APE

Marvo · May 23, 2016

Personally I'd recommend a rewire if it's rubber insulation. As soon as you disturb it there's a high chance it's going to degrade very quickly, same if you have to dismantle accessories for testing, it will likely disintegrate. Is it screwed galvanised steel conduit?.

NDG Elecs · May 23, 2016

I would not swap the CU over even if the cable was in apparently tip top condition. You would probably find a few issues with the wiring that needs addressing when you do the testing, then it's can o worms time in my opinion. My advice would be make sure your party wall in the loft has no gaps through to his loft so if there ever is a fire it should stay on his side!

APE37 · May 23, 2016

Hi guys thanks for the quick responses. I thought I was right. Will be sticking to my guns now and say rewire or get someone else. To be honest marvo I didn't really look too far into it as I spotted the rubber cables at the consumer unit and started to panic and said rewire needed. But unfortunately it fell on deaf ears as the home owner has spent a lot of money doing the place up. So now don't want to ruin decoration. Really annoys me when people do this, spend money on the house and don't give the electrics a thought till the end. thanks gay owl I recon it will be a can o worms as the guy is a keen diyer. As for the gaps in the loft the neighbour is on the other side of the street so don't affect me, but I see your point. Anyway thanks again and will now say rewire or nothing, up to them then.
cheers
APE

7029 dave · May 23, 2016

IMO I would not consider a CU change, my first priority would be rewiring, as mentioned with old rubber when moved/pulled about the insulation will be shot, this material over time will just fall apart.

Octopus · May 23, 2016

At the end of the day you needc to stick to your principles and walking away is almost certainly for the best for you. Just imagine the grief if you attempt as cu change and it all goes horribly wrong, then you have an emergency rewire on your hands, with a difficult client.

I have refused to work on vir on a number of occasions.

Marvo · May 23, 2016

If it was installed as steel conduit which might have doubled as the CPC you might be able just to draw new wires through it so rewiring even after his cosmetic upgrades might not be so bad..

Marvo · May 23, 2016

Murdoch said:
.....Just imagine the grief if you attempt as cu change and it all goes horribly wrong, then you have an emergency rewire on your hands, with a difficult client.

You can get heatshrink on 100m rolls

APE37 · May 24, 2016

Hi guys, thanks for the advice. I am going to stick to my guns if the customer says no to a rewire and just walk away. As Murdoch said it will be a lot of grief. Just wondered what others thought because of the other electricians thoughts, made me think who else would think like that, and as I suspected, not many.
Thanks again guys and all the best.
APE

ruston · May 24, 2016

With the others on this , the cables on replaced items are likely to be shot . In all probability it will not test out, and if it does , you won't need your satnav to find your way back after a few visits to the new RCD.

( I know it's your neighbour lol.)

David M · May 24, 2016

Unfortunately a lot of folk are completely naïve to the possibility that their home may require a re-wire. They often get their initial advice from friends regarding CU upgrades, with the view that all will be fine once that's done. Its often the case that when you go out to quote on a CU upgrade you find that the wiring is years old, no earth bonding, no CPC's, VIR... The horror on the customers face when you suggest that its time for a re-wire! Especially when they have just spent loads on re-decorating! Many folk are of the opinion if it works why change it.

I did a CU upgrade a few years back, only to have the customer phoning a few days later to complain that it "keeps tripping and was perfectly fine before the upgrade"
Turns out that it was his cooker that was faulty. He remained adamant that the cooker was fine. I tried to explain to him that the new CU upgrade included a protection device (RCD) and that it was sensitive to faults which may not cause the appliance to fail, but are faults that could be or become potentially dangerous to users. Even after showing him the tests to prove what I was saying was true he still did not believe me.

My point being that some folk just can't be reasoned with!

So my advice would be to walk away.

So good on you for sticking to your guns and being upfront and honest to your customer.

APE37 · May 24, 2016

Hi guys thanks again for the advice. I really appreciate it. All the best.
APE37

djelectric · May 27, 2016

One of the things I have learnt is to always be honest with the customer, test properly and be straight with them. They don't like what they hear initially but they always come round and get you to do the work afterwards! Don't listen to anyone else telling you what you already know isn't the best way of doing it. RCD tripping callbacks are a nightmare, been there, never again!

uksparks · May 27, 2016

Don't even consider touching it, rip the lot out. This is one I found the other week.

Marvo · May 27, 2016

^^ The perfect illustration of what happens when it's disturbed and why changing the CU or any of the accessories isn't a good idea (regardless what the guys at the electrical counter say)..