Socket distances

flex_m · Jul 26, 2016

Hi all,

I'm first fixing fancy flats at the moment, started doing some kitchens, I need none less than 5 drawings that all contain mistakes or out of date information, but that's not the point of this post.

When it came to chopping out the sockets, I realised that one will be 65mm from an induction hob and another will be 135mm from the sink. Bought it to the attention of the company responsible the m&e, and although the guy I was speaking to about it thought it was ridiculous, orders from up high are to put them in regardless. I'm more than used to installing things I know full well will need to be changed for whatever reason, but gets my boss paid twice, much to my dismay, but this is the first time I've been told to install something I know very well is dangerous.

Regs wise, I know 7671 doesn't state any measurements in this situation, and the building regs state wherever practable 300 should be allowed. It definitely is practable, there's loads of space above the work surface, I'm 90% sure it's as they want the edges of the sockets and marble tiles to line up.

Just wondering what you guys would do in this situation?

JohnnyRingmain · Jul 26, 2016

If the socket was at risk of being splashed then I wouldn't install it and insist it be moved or not put in at all.

As for the induction hob, surely the risks of that would be obvious.

Octopus · Jul 26, 2016

It sounds like you are being put in a difficult position - are you signing off the EIC?

If you do decide to go ahead and do as requested, the very first EICR may well give them a C2 and then the fireworks will begin.

I would seek clarification, from the designer, in writing, so if somebody tries to blame you later, you can point the finger elsewhere.

For what its worth, IMHO, BS7671 should include the 300mm minimum!

123 · Jul 26, 2016

Murdoch said:
It sounds like you are being put in a difficult position - are you signing off the EIC?

If you do decide to go ahead and do as requested, the very first EICR may well give them a C2 and then the fireworks will begin.

I would seek clarification, from the designer, in writing, so if somebody tries to blame you later, you can point the finger elsewhere.

For what its worth, IMHO, BS7671 should include the 300mm minimum!

Given BS7671 doesn't include any recommendations on it, what reg could the C2 be referenced against in an EICR?

Octopus · Jul 27, 2016

123 said:
Given BS7671 doesn't include any recommendations on it, what reg could the C2 be referenced against in an EICR?

Thats a interesting point - as I would C2 a socket in close proximity to a sink.

Another "success" for BS 7671!

telectrix · Jul 27, 2016

there is an applicable reg. 512.2.

richy3333 · Jul 27, 2016

Murdoch said:
It sounds like you are being put in a difficult position - are you signing off the EIC?

If you do decide to go ahead and do as requested, the very first EICR may well give them a C2 and then the fireworks will begin.

I would seek clarification, from the designer, in writing, so if somebody tries to blame you later, you can point the finger elsewhere.

For what its worth, IMHO, BS7671 should include the 300mm minimum!

I agree. Older OSG's/or 'The electricians guide to the English Building Regs' did suggest 300mm but that appears to have fallen by the wayside (unless there is a more upto date BR guide?).

Insist on a final drawing (otherwise it will all go pear shaped and blame starts being thrown around), get them to sign it off and then highlight the problems in writing and seek instruction from the customer et al.

Dont be afraid to say no if you have to do so. Men have balls for a reason!

Aurai · Jul 27, 2016

Subject to water splash - does that not get covered by IP classification, so no distances in the regs, suggest you just select suitable accessories for the environment.

Adam W · Jul 27, 2016

If I were in the same predicament what I do would depend on what capacity I was there in - if it were my personal details on the certificate I'd want the sockets moved, but if I were in a junior position I'd maybe diplomatically query it once and try not to rock the boat too much.
Doing things properly is nice, but not as nice as job security.

LankyWill · Jul 27, 2016

off the top of my head, isnt the minimum distance 300mm?

Loki · Jul 27, 2016

I know for new homes the NHBC says

In the absence of any advice in the appliance manufacturer’s installation instructions, an electrical fitting such as a socket outlet, switch, control unit etc. should be positioned to enable safe operation and to avoid the harmful effects of heat and steam from cooking activities.A standard electrical tting, (which is not splash resistant), should not be located next to a sink or drainer where it could be affected by splashing.A minimum distance of 300mm, measured horizontally from an electrical fitting to the edge of a high level grill, free standing cooker, individual hob, sink or drainer, is considered acceptable for the purposes of avoiding adverse effects from using a cooker, sink or drainer.

http://www.nhbc.co.uk/Builders/Tech...echnicalGuidance/81/filedownload,51128,en.pdf

richy3333 · Jul 29, 2016

Just remembered this. Was in a commercial kitchen. The 2G was used to power 2 kettles stretched across the sink.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Socket distances

lframe19 · Jul 29, 2016

You may find this useful

Socket distances

flex_m

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JohnnyRingmain

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Octopus

123

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Octopus

telectrix

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richy3333

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Aurai

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Adam W

LankyWill

Loki

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richy3333

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lframe19

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