Recessed Fire Rated Down Lights

bsparkrtd · Jun 20, 2017

Hi

This maybe a daft question but I want to be 100% sure. Do fire rated recessed down lights require Insumescent covers? Or will a 200mm air gap surrounding the fitting suffice?

Thanks in advance

Regards

Soapy

Taylortwocities · Jun 20, 2017

Fire rated downlights provide intumescent material that prevents the spread of fire (for a period) between the floor below and the floor above. On that basis there is no point you fitting fire hoods as well.
It is there to maintain the integrity of a fire-rated ceiling after you have made it into a sort of swiss cheese by drilling dirty great holes in it.

If the ceiling is not itself fire-rated then there is no point having fire rated downlights.

The fact that downlights may be fire rated has nothing to do with any gaps around them so that they can breathe. That is specified by the manufacturer. Some require a specified gap. Some even allow loft insulation to be draped over the top of the downlight.

davesparks · Jun 21, 2017

Light fittings generate heat, the more airflow around then you can provide to carry the heat away then the longer they will last.

Deleted member 9648 · Jun 21, 2017

I attended a fault today,fire rated tin can type GU10 tungsten downlights in a kitchen. Two were installed in a small separate roof area over the sink. Totally enclosed in celotex the wiring behind was completely black and crispy...worst I've ever seen, even the celotex was seriously heat damaged. No slack on the cables and no access to the void the ceiling is going to have to come down to rewire.
Thats why airspace requirements HAVE to be adhered to.

Deleted member 93172 · Jun 21, 2017

That's why they are stopping the use of GU10 halogen lamps, because of the heat problems, I have not installed them for a number of years now.

Rpa07 · Jun 21, 2017

Fire damage from very badly designed install (hhm hhm builder) who fitted a GU10 in a cupboard with an external switch, not a cupboard switch (on/off with the door) no, that would be too sensible. Then proceeded to put a shelf in the cupboard SOOOooo the owner likes putting the gym clothes, spandex and the like, in the top cupboard, closes door light still on but you can't see because door closed - you couldn't make it up. Clothes catch fire - smoke damage and us to isolate and test!
Great for my NVQ though - didn't say that at the scene!

[ElectriciansForums.net] Recessed Fire Rated Down Lights

davesparks · Jun 21, 2017

ye oldie sparks said:
That's why they are stopping the use of GU10 halogen lamps, because of the heat problems, I have not installed them for a number of years now.

Who are the 'they' to which you are referring? And do you have any references for this stoppage of the use of GU10 lamps?

I am deeply concerned by this statement as incandescent lamps, including gu10s, are still used a lot in the industry I work in and there are currently no suitable alternatives for us.

Andy78 · Jun 21, 2017

davesparks said:
Who are the 'they' to which you are referring? And do you have any references for this stoppage of the use of GU10 lamps?

I am deeply concerned by this statement as incandescent lamps, including gu10s, are still used a lot in the industry I work in and there are currently no suitable alternatives for us.

Apparently an EU directive banned directional mains voltage halogen lamps with the phase out starting last September, with non directional halogen being stopped in 2018.

https://www.megamanuk.com/assets/files/pdf/Halogen ban chart - phased out lamps 2016 - 2018.pdf

davesparks · Jun 22, 2017

Andy78 said:
Apparently an EU directive banned directional mains voltage halogen lamps with the phase out starting last September, with non directional halogen being stopped in 2018.

https://www.megamanuk.com/assets/files/pdf/Halogen ban chart - phased out lamps 2016 - 2018.pdf

I'm not convinced, I can still get most of those lamps through theatrical lamp suppliers.

Andy78 · Jun 22, 2017

davesparks said:
I'm not convinced, I can still get most of those lamps through theatrical lamp suppliers.

You can still get all the lamps they supposedly already banned. I think it's bluster.

davesparks · Jun 22, 2017

Andy78 said:
You can still get all the lamps they supposedly already banned. I think it's bluster.

I'm pretty sure we can, we buy things like Gu10s in large batches so only order them ever couple of yearsand so I may be wrong.
Certainly all of the theatrical halogen lamps of the 575W, 750W, 1000W and 2000W varieties are still available, along with the hundreds of 60W pearl incandescents we get through in festoon lighting at music festivals every year. They are branded as 'rough service' which may be the dodge used to get around the rules?

I'll struggle if we can't get the incandescents much longer as I, like many others, use the festoon lighting as a ballast load to balance the phases on the generators. If you ever see the festoons lit up during the day at an event and think it's a waste of energy then it's most likely maintaining the <30% balance required to not kill the voltage regulator in a diesel generator.

HandySparks · Jun 22, 2017

ye oldie sparks said:
That's why they are stopping the use of GU10 halogen lamps, because of the heat problems...

Nothing to do with 'heat problems'. It's a global warming / CO2 emissions / power consumption / energy efficiancy issue.

Edit: unless you meant that global warming is a 'heat problem'.

Deleted member 93172 · Jun 23, 2017

Sorry if I got it all wrong but it was something somebody said re heat problems of the lamps causing the building fabrication materials to be effected,when the lamps have been installed in the old type of fittings where the lamp is exposed with in the ceiling voids.

Taylortwocities · Jun 23, 2017

The restriction on sale of these is all a part of the energy saving 'initiative' that has seen GLS lamps replaced by mercury instilled CFL lamps. Thankfully LED is here now.

You can thank Europe and John Prescott for this.

DPG · Jun 23, 2017

And as someone said above I think, you can still get 60W 'normal' BC lamps in rough service types for use in inspection lamps, festoon site lighting etc.

Recessed Fire Rated Down Lights

bsparkrtd

Taylortwocities

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davesparks

Deleted member 9648

Deleted member 93172

Rpa07

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davesparks

Andy78

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davesparks

Andy78

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davesparks

HandySparks

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Deleted member 93172

Taylortwocities

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DPG

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