Settle a small disagreement with me and another sparky

Baker1988 · Aug 21, 2017

Hi just wondered if any one could settle this disagreement me and another sparky I work with are having.

Basically do lighting circuits need rcd protection? The circuits I am on about are already existing (doing eicr?) and it is all surface mounted in pc trunking one of the circuits goes into a bathroom but the bathroom has supplementary bonding and also the main bond to gas and water is in place. It's a tn-s earth.

I basically say it doesn't need a rcbo (board is rcbos with 2 mcb for lighting) and he is saying it does.

Its work for a local council and have been told to rectify any c1 or c2 there and then but can leave c3s

I may be wrong and I'm happy to learn if I am.

The Ghost · Aug 21, 2017

Leesparkykent · Aug 21, 2017

Is supplementary bonding is in place, gas and water are adequately bonded then it's a C3.

westward10 · Aug 21, 2017

This is always open to needless debate on an EICR, you are not there to decide if it needs additional rcd protection but to make a statement of fact it does not have this provision. Deciding on a Code you need to assess whether existing provisions which are or not in place make it safe for continued use.

Leesparkykent · Aug 21, 2017

@westward10 will hate this but show your mate best practise guide 4 page 13

http://www.----------------------------/mediafile/100740439/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4-.pdf

stevethesparks · Aug 21, 2017

Lighting circuits in general, no, but also dependant on installation method. Bathrooms, all circuits serving the location and/or passing through zones 1 & 2 to be rcd protected.
701.411.3.3

Baker1988 · Aug 21, 2017

Leesparkykent said:
@westward10 will hate this but show your mate best practise guide 4 page 13

http://www.----------------------------/mediafile/100740439/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4-.pdf

Yeah I agree with that and looking at page 15 it's only a C3.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Settle a small disagreement with me and another sparky

Baker1988 · Aug 21, 2017

stevethesparks said:
Lighting circuits in general, no, but also dependant on installation method. Bathrooms, all circuits serving the location and/or passing through zones 1 & 2 to be rcd protected.
701.411.3.3

Is that just on new installs as I would agree they need it but what if they havnt got it. What would you code it?

Leesparkykent · Aug 21, 2017

Baker1988 said:
Yeah I agree with that and looking at page 15 it's only a C3. View attachment 37930

Go and rub his face in it tomorrow

stevethesparks · Aug 21, 2017

Baker1988 said:
Is that just on new installs as I would agree they need it but what if they havnt got it. What would you code it?

C3 - I admit I didn't read the original post fully.

Baker1988 · Aug 21, 2017

stevethesparks said:
C3 - I admit I didn't read the original post fully.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking and as it's a C3 they don't want to sort it out just c2 and c1 and I don't want to make work that is not needed.

westward10 · Aug 21, 2017

Baker1988 said:
Is that just on new installs as I would agree they need it but what if they havnt got it. What would you code it?

The fact is it does not have it and this is what you state, question is does it affect the safe continued use in its absence or are existing provisions adequate.

Baker1988 · Aug 21, 2017

westward10 said:
The fact is it does not have it and this is what you state, question is does it affect the safe continued use in its absence or are existing provisions adequate.

I would say the existing is adequate.

Richard Burns · Aug 21, 2017

If it is your professional opinion that the design of the existing installation does not present a significant risk but has the capability to be improved then this would be a C3 on your report, because that is what you are reporting, your assessment of the risk.

With ADS and supplementary bonding in the bathroom the touch voltage in the case of a fault should not present a risk therefore it is not necessary to have 30mA RCD protection, however it it were in place this would be an extra layer of safety and would be in agreement with the current regulations.

Ian1981 · Aug 22, 2017

An assessment can be made of the effectiveness of the supplementary bonding which I'm sure as part of the testing process you have done

Basically if the lighting circuit in the bathroom is protected by a 6 amp type b mcb then the formula
50/Ia is used
So 50/30= 1.667 ohms
So as long as your resistance of the pipework is below this figure the supplementary bonding satisfies the regulations
Also worth remembering that all circuits serving the location without rcd protection need to be supplementary bonded together to the extraneous parts

Settle a small disagreement with me and another sparky

Baker1988

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The Ghost

Leesparkykent

westward10

Leesparkykent

stevethesparks

-

Baker1988

-

Baker1988

-

Leesparkykent

stevethesparks

-

Baker1988

-

westward10

Baker1988

-

Richard Burns

-

Ian1981

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