help on wiring emergency switch lighting

andy999 · Sep 4, 2017

Not quite got to this stage in the project yet but trying to think forward on what needs to be done, I haven't had much experience with wiring emergency switch lighting, Live and Switch Lives. Can someone tell me if the wiring is wrong in this wiring sketch and how to rectify.
I've deliberately left out Earthing.

davesparks · Sep 4, 2017

No that's not right, do you understand what the test switch is supposed to do?

andy999 · Sep 4, 2017

yes test switch is meant to simulate a power failure on the circuit so triggering the emergency backup battery, where abouts have I gone wrong?

J.C.E · Sep 4, 2017

C/U PERM LIVE>>COM of key switch and to com of manual override switch/photocell etc

from L1 of key switch>> L of emg light fitting
from L1 of manual override switch or photocell etc>> L1 of light fitting

the key switch is to break the perm feed to the emergency light to mimic a lose of power.

you should feed the key switch by the same circuit as the local non/emg lighting

andy999 · Sep 4, 2017

J.C.E said:
C/U PERM LIVE>>COM of key switch and to com of manual override switch/photocell etc

from L1 of key switch>> L of emg light fitting
from L1 of manual override switch or photocell etc>> L1 of light fitting

the key switch is to break the perm feed to the emergency light to mimic a lose of power.

you should feed the key switch by the same circuit as the local non/emg lighting

I knew there was something not right but really couldn't work it out. I haven't wired an emergency lighting circuit yet and something I really want to understand, thanks for the help JCE

telectrix · Sep 4, 2017

your keyswitch should interrupt only the perm. L to the EM. it should not affect the operation of the light/s via the normal (user)switch. so you take L from supply to both switches, then L1 out of user switch to operate the light normally, and L out from the keyswitch to L on the EM.

andy999 · Sep 4, 2017

ok guys is this the correct way?

andy999 · Sep 4, 2017

Shouldn't the Line Out from the end user switch also go to the L on the Emergency light fitting too?

davesparks · Sep 4, 2017

andy999 said:
ok guys is this the correct way?

View attachment 38078

Nope, that won't work either.
Try actually thinking through the circuit and what will happen with the test switch in each position. Instead of drawing a box with letters and numbers on it actually draw a switch and it should become obvious.

J.C.E · Sep 4, 2017

get rid of the neon- that not needed.....

change your L out on your 2pole switch to go to L1 on emg fitting AND L on non emg
get rid of the L2 wiring on key switch

davesparks · Sep 4, 2017

J.C.E said:
get rid of the neon- that not needed.....

How do you know this? Have you read the specification he is working to?

J.C.E · Sep 4, 2017

davesparks said:
How do you know this? Have you read the specification he is working to?

i assumed there prob wasnt a 'spec' and he is just trying to get his head around simple EL wiring....

andy999 · Sep 4, 2017

Hi guys sorry about the slow reply I'm just working it out using Daves recommendation actually drawing a switch, its certainly helped me before, and there is no spec I'm just trying to understand the wiring process of where the conductors go before/if I ever need to wire an emergency lighting circuit, I enjoy the logic side of wiring but this ones got me scratching my head

andy999 · Sep 4, 2017

J.C.E said:
get rid of the neon- that not needed.....

change your L out on your 2pole switch to go to L1 on emg fitting AND L on non emg
get rid of the L2 wiring on key switch

Ok got rid of the neon and ignoring the Neutral, 'L out' from the 2 pole switch now goes to 'L1' in Emergency light and 'L' in non emergency light fitting

davesparks · Sep 4, 2017

That'll work, but just be aware that different manufacturers sometimes use the symbols L1 and L interchangeably.

andy999 · Sep 4, 2017

Thanks Dave, I'm just going to sit back and mull it over.

Dozer 73 · Sep 4, 2017

Just to complicate things , we've started using meg test modules , you run all your em switch wires back to mains and through a contractor or contractors pending on amount of circuits
And the test module controls the contractor N/C
Placing all the emergency lights into test mode with the press of one button
You can set it on 3 min 30 min 3hour and it resets itself after activated time
No need for key switches everywhere
I really like the system
DELR - emergency lighting test relay: Hiquel - http://www.hiquel.com/en/factory-automation/monitoring-control-relays/tip-series-45mm-for-distribution-boxes/delr-emergency-lighting-test-relay.html

Dozer 73 · Sep 4, 2017

andy999 said:
Not quite got to this stage in the project yet but trying to think forward on what needs to be done, I haven't had much experience with wiring emergency switch lighting, Live and Switch Lives. Can someone tell me if the wiring is wrong in this wiring sketch and how to rectify.
I've deliberately left out Earthing.

View attachment 38076

Like your little sketch , what app / software do you use

davesparks · Sep 4, 2017

Nigel Martin said:
Just to complicate things , we've started using emergency lighting test modules , you run all your em switch wires back to mains and through a contractor or contractors pending on amount of circuits
And the test module controls the contractor N/C
Placing all the emergency lights into test mode with the press of one button
You can set it on 3 min 30 min 3hour and it resets itself after activated time
No need for key switches everywhere
I really like the system
DELR - emergency lighting test relay: Hiquel - http://www.hiquel.com/en/factory-automation/monitoring-control-relays/tip-series-45mm-for-distribution-boxes/delr-emergency-lighting-test-relay.html

if you're going to the trouble of installing that type of thing then why not just fit self test fittings or an intelligent system which actually records the test results for you.

I can see a problem with that timer system where it could reset itself before you've walked round to all of the fittings at the end of the test to check that they are still illuminated.

Dozer 73 · Sep 4, 2017

davesparks said:
if you're going to the trouble of installing that type of thing then why not just fit self test fittings or an intelligent system which actually records the test results for you.

I can see a problem with that timer system where it could reset itself before you've walked round to all of the fittings at the end of the test to check that they are still illuminated.

Yeh I agree with the resetting itself before walk round finished , you don't have to use the timer , something we have been specified to install , the designer obviously thought fit for purpose on particular installation

Dozer 73 · Sep 4, 2017

davesparks said:
if you're going to the trouble of installing that type of thing then why not just fit self test fittings or an intelligent system which actually records the test results for you.

I can see a problem with that timer system where it could reset itself before you've walked round to all of the fittings at the end of the test to check that they are still illuminated.

out of interest how much would your suggested ideas cost , could be something I could put to our designers if cost effective

davesparks · Sep 4, 2017

Nigel Martin said:
out of interest how much would your suggested ideas cost , could be something I could put to our designers if cost effective

I haven't a clue, all I know about your installation is that you have fitted a fancy timer relay to do the testing!

Dozer 73 · Sep 5, 2017

davesparks said:
I haven't a clue, all I know about your installation is that you have fitted a fancy timer relay to do the testing!

I can only install what has been specified by our designers , but thanks for reply

Dozer 73 · Sep 5, 2017

davesparks said:
I haven't a clue, all I know about your installation is that you have fitted a fancy timer relay to do the testing!

meant to like not dislike
Yeh wasn't too convinced myself , but seems like a good method , saving on key switches everywhere , suppose more things to fail though in the installation
It will soon become outdated the rate things are changing , if it's a step in the right direction who knows