Accessible or inaccessible?

buzzlightyear · Sep 3, 2017

Rpa07 said:
Your posts are usually illegible and I normally don't care but rewrite this bit actually trying to make sense - just for me, please. (I'm on the defensive of the Holy word - it's my job)

is it the bible ,book of bull s**t you can not get your head around or the REGS.

Rpa07 · Sep 3, 2017

buzzlightyear said:
is it the bible ,book of bull s**t you can not get your head around !

Yeh, not helping!
You could rephrase it - "is it like the Bible, the book so full of wisdom that I haven't been anointed to understand it but with the Great Creators Grace, I may be able to - unlike the BS7671 thAt is, which remains a mystery!"

buzzlightyear · Sep 3, 2017

Rpa07 said:
Yeh, not helping!
You could rephrase it - "is it like the Bible, the book so full of wisdom that I haven't been anointed to understand it but with the Great Creators Grace, I may be able to - unlike the BS7671 thAt is which remains a mystery!"

both !

Rpa07 · Sep 3, 2017

Thought so - I love you Buzz (that's also my job!)

buzzlightyear · Sep 3, 2017

Rpa07 said:
Thought so - I love you Buzz (that's also my job!)

to each to their own.

Lucien Nunes · Sep 4, 2017

the muppets make up wright the regs .its like the book of bull s**t the bible.

I'm not sure the people who write the regs are really muppets. The regs have flaws, I grant you, and like all standards are incomplete and always will be. But it is a massive challenge to write, in one book, a standard that covers every single situation, device, risk, method and safety feature found in electrical work throughout the country. You could write a whole book just on accessibility for maintenance. They have to deal with conflicting demands from different interested parties - legislators, manufacturers, electricians, architects - and come up with a compromise. Would you rather they left room for manoeuvre or dictated everything? 'Make nice joints' is too vague, 'The box shall be secured to the joist with two 3.5x25 gold-passivated countersunk woodscrews 20 +/-2mm above the plasterboard' is too prescriptive. Somewhere they have to find a balance, and in doing so they get called muppets...

My version is that if damage to decor or fitments might result or significant making-good is required after access, or it takes much longer to access than to check/correct the fault itself, then it's not accessible. I don't fit carpets, and I don't want to have to call a carpet fitter to refit a valuable carpet properly after I've gone poking around under it for a disconnect. Thankfully I don't touch domestics.

I also agree that a craftsman can make a sound, permanent, maintenance-free joint with a good quality screw terminal box, but given that either or both parts of that equation might be lacking...

ipf · Sep 5, 2017

Lucien Nunes said:
I also agree that a craftsman can make a sound, permanent, maintenance-free joint with a good quality screw terminal box, but given that either or both parts of that equation might be lacking...

Well said Lucien. It works both way, though.
This was a rfc, wired in pyro with neutrals extended, in a Schneider 12 way 3 phase board, following upgrade to rcbo's .

[ElectriciansForums.net] Accessible or inaccessible?

Wilko · Sep 5, 2017

I've not seen a Wago melted before (from normal use

). It looks like a 773, which is rated at 24A and should be ok for RFC?

Leader · Sep 5, 2017

Looking closely it doesn't look like a wago. This one's got curved edges.

Des 56 · Sep 5, 2017

Given a choice between a screw or push fit connection,whether the joint was under a floorboard or not,I would not use a push fit connector

I know nothing of them only through very limited use,however,via the little I have experienced,I have found there is no way I would be content to have a joint I made constructed with those connectors
If I used a screw connection I would be much more confident of its suitability and its performance

ipf · Sep 5, 2017

Des 56 said:
Given a choice between a screw or push fit connection,whether the joint was under a floorboard or not,I would not use a push fit connector

I know nothing of them only through very limited use,however,via the little I have experienced,I have found there is no way I would be content to have a joint I made constructed with those connectors
If I used a screw connection I would be much more confident of its suitability and its performance

I like the lever connectors and have used them. They are especially handy during fault finding...but I can't see them being a more solid connection than a properly fitted brass/copper/brass screw connector.

telectrix · Sep 5, 2017

yes but Electrical Trainee can push a wire in even if they can't tighten a screw properly. all part of the dumbing down. by the 21st edition, monkeys will be able to be electricians.

Rpa07 · Sep 5, 2017

The industry must be preparing early by the payment of peanuts!

telectrix said:
yes but Electrical Trainee can push a wire in even if they can't tighten a screw properly. all part of the dumbing down. by the 21st edition, monkeys will be able to be electricians.

ipf · Sep 5, 2017

telectrix said:
yes but Electrical Trainee can push a wire in even if they can't tighten a screw properly. all part of the dumbing down. by the 21st edition, monkeys will be able to be electricians.

Yep....and robots doing all the fault finding

telectrix · Sep 5, 2017

ipf said:
Yep....and robots doing all the fault finding

nah. that job would need the extra intelligence of the gorillas.

ipf · Sep 5, 2017

telectrix said:
nah. that job would need the extra intelligence of the gorillas.

Yorkies? At least we'll have the chimps on this side of the hills.

telectrix · Sep 8, 2017

ipf said:
Yorkies? At least we'll have the chimps on this side of the hills.

coolsparx · Sep 9, 2017

Leader said:
Looking closely it doesn't look like a wago. This one's got curved edges.

They look like the Ideal In-Sure® Model 33, www.idealindustries.co.uk/product/12/204/67899/.html which are 32 Amp rated, so one can assume there was a problem with the wire not being fully inserted or something?

The Ideal 2, 3 & 4 way ones are 32 Amp, which is why I use them, as they can be used for ring main cables.

Leesparkykent · Sep 9, 2017

coolsparx said:
They look like the Ideal In-Sure® Model 33, www.idealindustries.co.uk/product/12/204/67899/.html which are 32 Amp rated, so one can assume there was a problem with the wire not being fully inserted or something?

The Ideal 2, 3 & 4 way ones are 32 Amp, which is why I use them, as they can be used for ring main cables.

So can a 20A as generally a ring final circuit is designed around the assumption of a load at 20A at the furthest point of the circuit and the remainder to the rating of the over current protective device evenly distributed around the ring final circuit.

coolsparx · Sep 9, 2017

Leesparkykent said:
So can a 20A as generally a ring final circuit is designed around the assumption of a load at 20A at the furthest point of the circuit and the remainder to the rating of the over current protective device evenly distributed around the ring final circuit.

Surely if the ring provides power to the kitchen & utility, then someone further down the line does something wrong to break the ring, which is not picked up until the next EICR if they bother to have it done, then those poor little 20 Amp connectors will be the weakest link & will fail before the fuse or circuit breaker disconnects?

telectrix · Sep 9, 2017

coolsparx said:
Surely if the ring provides power to the kitchen & utility, then someone further down the line does something wrong to break the ring, which is not picked up until the next EICR if they bother to have it done, then those poor little 20 Amp connectors will be the weakest link & will fail before the fuse or circuit breaker disconnects?

same could apply to a 32A wago/ideal/hellerman push in connector.

coolsparx · Sep 10, 2017

telectrix said:
same could apply to a 32A wago/ideal/hellerman push in connector.

That is true, but at least the manufacturer has rated them at 32A, or am I missing something?

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