Unboxed Lighting Connection

Deleted member 106092 · Dec 19, 2017

This connection was left in a loft after the installation of new lighting in all the rooms below. The loft insulation is also inadequate and will be topped up, in theory covering it. Does this meet regulations for this type of installation, should it be boxed and is it a warning to get the rest of the wiring checked?

[ElectriciansForums.net] Unboxed Lighting Connection

telectrix · Dec 19, 2017

a diy mess . as you thought, a qualified electrician needs to assess thatand whatever other nasties are lurking about before you add more itchy-poo.

buzzlightyear · Dec 19, 2017

no wonder there is any loft boards on top ,you got to give it to them
they did put tape on the mains mind you.

pirate · Dec 19, 2017

Lovely! Looks fine to me! A bit like the situation I found in my daughter's flat when replacing the light in the shower. This is what I found in the ceiling cavity, all feeding the light and an extractor fan.
I commissioned an EICR as the flat was to be rented out. The guys came back with 2 fails, one being the incoming tails were undersized, the other being the bulb in the shower light was cracked. Clearly they didn't look in the roof space above, or they would have seen this...hopefully.

davesparks · Dec 19, 2017

pirate said:
Lovely! Looks fine to me! A bit like the situation I found in my daughter's flat when replacing the light in the shower. This is what I found in the ceiling cavity, all feeding the light and an extractor fan.
I commissioned an EICR as the flat was to be rented out. The guys came back with 2 fails, one being the incoming tails were undersized, the other being the bulb in the shower light was cracked. Clearly they didn't look in the roof space above, or they would have seen this...hopefully.
]

If you read the EICR paperwork you will see that building voids such as loft spaces are normally excluded from the inspection.
An EICR is a means of checking that an installation hasn’t deteriorated and of identifying areas where regulations have changed and improvements could be made. It’s not designed to identify bad practice at the time of installation.

If you had brought this to the attention of the person carrying out the EICR when agreeing the scope of the work then they could have included inspection of areas which are not normally looked at.

mattg4321 · Dec 19, 2017

davesparks said:
If you read the EICR paperwork you will see that building voids such as loft spaces are normally excluded from the inspection.
An EICR is a means of checking that an installation hasn’t deteriorated and of identifying areas where regulations have changed and improvements could be made. It’s not designed to identify bad practice at the time of installation.

If you had brought this to the attention of the person carrying out the EICR when agreeing the scope of the work then they could have included inspection of areas which are not normally looked at.

I agree with most of what you said but since Amendment 3 there has been a change to require accessible loft spaces with electrical equipment to be inspected. Certainly with Elecsa/ECA/NICEIC

See here under Appendix 6 Supporting contractors in the building services sector | NICEIC - http://www.niceic.com/contractor/essentials/3rd-amendment

buzzlightyear · Dec 19, 2017

davesparks said:
If you had brought this to the attention of the person carrying out the EICR when agreeing the scope of the work then they could have included inspection of areas which are not normally looked at.

does mean under the bed has well !

pirate · Dec 19, 2017

I hear what you say davesparks and mattg. I oviously posted ambiguously, as it was not my intention to criticise the guys doing the eicr...i merely meant that, hopefully, had they looked in the loft-space then presumably they would have been less than impressed. I am not well-versed in the eicr paperwork, so if they aren't required to look in such spaces, that's fine (not perfect, as the wiring in my case was not of a good standard) however, the loft space is formed by a lowered ceiling in the shower stall (it's a traditional Victorin flat with high ceilings) and this over-shower void is open at one end so inspection is not difficult..hop on a stool and poke a torch in. Would that maybe fall within the scope following Amendment 3? To the layman, an electrical installation condition report should be just that, subject to not expecting any disruptive inspection of inaccessible areas...i am glad to have had your views on this. Incidentally, the DNO sent a man out who emailed me a letter saying the tails were fine, and when I emailed this, and a picture of the replacement light, my eicr was issued without further ado.

buzzlightyear · Dec 19, 2017

has follows agreed limitations if any on the inspection and testing
no lifting of floor boards (meaning rip up)
looking in in loft area (meaning scratching like c&&t .

telectrix · Dec 19, 2017

whatever you keep under your bed , buzz, your secret's safe here.

telectrix · Dec 19, 2017

once, when doing some work for a client, i noticed he'd had one of these bathroom pods installed. these are factory built then assembled on site. 4 halogen GU10s fitted, fed from existing ceiling rose. cpc's cut off, even though the fittings were class I.... exposed inner insulation at every fitting. complete monkey's abortion.

davesparks · Dec 19, 2017

pirate said:
I hear what you say davesparks and mattg. I oviously posted ambiguously, as it was not my intention to criticise the guys doing the eicr...i merely meant that, hopefully, had they looked in the loft-space then presumably they would have been less than impressed.

and when I emailed this, and a picture of the replacement light, my eicr was issued without further ado.

Part of my point was that if a customer doesn’t make us aware of hidden or potentially hidden items that they have concerns about then they are not helping us or themselves.
On the rare occasions that I do an EICR I always ask the customer if they are aware of any problems or have particular concerns before I start, but that’s just me.

The last part of your post doesn’t make sense, the EICR should have been issued on completion of the inspection and testing and is not dependant on completion of any remedial works

Taylortwocities · Dec 20, 2017

hambone said:
This connection was left in a loft after the installation of new lighting in all the rooms below.

That wiring is not new. The red/black cables were replaced by brown/blue cores back in *ooh* 2005 was it?
And it doesnt look recent. Maybe it was just the lights that were renewed?

Anyways, the junction needs to be done properly, in an enclosure, and with strain relief for the cables. And the cables need clipping to joists etc.

pirate · Dec 20, 2017

Davesparks, thank you for your comments. I was unaware that I could have any input to the scope of the EICR, and even if I had, I would not have had sufficient knowledge to direct a professional electrician in any way. The fail on the shower light caused me to investigate, and obviously I'm glad that happened, as that is when the rather messy connections came to light. So, no blame being apportioned here. I needed an EICR, ordered one, got one, and it highlighted a problem for investigation. If, and I say if, there might, and I say might have been some onus on the electrician to check in an easily accessible loft space, the end result was fortunately the same. He did miss 2 very minor but visible lighting connectors, but I tidied them anyway.
Also, you are again correct in that I now recall getting the original EICR which of course showed the 2 fails...a fresh one was sent after the 2 fails had been addressed. I replaced the shower light with a proper one, with a transformer, all cables wagoed in a junction box, and cables clipped to joist.

Unboxed Lighting Connection

Deleted member 106092

telectrix

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buzzlightyear

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pirate

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davesparks

mattg4321

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buzzlightyear

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pirate

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buzzlightyear

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telectrix

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telectrix

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davesparks

Taylortwocities

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pirate

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