18th Edition cash cow for the IET

dksanders · Apr 19, 2018

So the 18th edition is almost upon us, an event which is fast becoming a regular thing from the IET, either as a new edition or a new series of amendments.

I'm a member of the IET (or the IEE as it was), something that I used to be proud of but now find an embarrassment especially within the trade. The reason for that is because every few years the IET feels the need to generate more money for itself and so issues new amendments or a complete issue of BS7671.

And lets' face it, some of the changes haven't been worth while, e.g. harmonising section numbering with EU regulations, or the change of wiring colours to blue and brown ( why I don't know as I have no intention of taking my house to Europe)

As a minimum for the regulated, qualified, conscientious electrician, this means they have to buy from the IET new copies of BS7671, The On Site Guide, and which ever Guidance Notes are applicable to them; so costing £100's. Every now and then, a top up C&G course is also required.

I have over 30 years, on the job experience and I hold C&G 2381, 2381-20 (17th Upgrade) and 2391. Yet to comply with 18th I'm going to have to take a 3 day top up course costing £520 and with 3 days loss of earnings, and the books, I'll be close to £2,000 out of pocket.

I'm a self employed sole trader doing primarily domestic work; there's only so much you can pass on.

Apparently I have two years in which I need to get that qualification. well it's not going to happen, at that point I'm going to quit being an electrician. So though I say it myself, another competent, qualified, consciencous electrician driven out of business by yet more bureaucracy thereby making way for the unqualified, unregulated, cowboys to step in.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest as it bugs me so much (and as I was hoping to get into The Electricians Arms)

Midwest · Apr 20, 2018

hightower said:
Because doing so would then give the message "ah but don't buy it for the next 6 months because it's sure to be cheaper given time" and then you'd have a load of sparks still working off the 3rd edition while they wait for the 4th edition to be a fiver.

I think you're holding the IET in too much high esteem. I think they just need to make some quick bucks, after holding too many coffee mornings and coming up with ridiculous concepts, like everyone having an earth rod.

Its not as if its a good read.

westward10 · Apr 20, 2018

About time we had a thread on the 18th Ed.

Octopus · Apr 20, 2018

westward10 said:
About time we had a thread on the 18th Ed.

Hum ........... a pointless change of a few regs .............. costing us all time and MONEY

buzzlightyear · Apr 20, 2018

Murdoch said:
I've had an email from a wholesaler offering the 18th for £78.50

cant wait till they are on flee bay or amazon ,Chinese copied for £50 quid.

Rpa07 · Apr 20, 2018

[ElectriciansForums.net] 18th Edition cash cow for the IET

I got mine today at ELEX at Westpoint Exeter - here is a picture of it with IGOR my butler holding it for the camera!

Confirmed today that Earth Rods will not be a requirement for PME systems in the 18th because people from Inverness complained about the impossibility in their rock strewn ground so if everyone can’t do it no one will. We can thank Elecsa for arguing our side.

westward10 · Apr 20, 2018

Murdoch said:
Hum ........... a pointless change of a few regs .............. costing us all time and MONEY

Roll on the 19th.

Octopus · Apr 20, 2018

westward10 said:
Roll on the 19th.

Yup - will have given up by then............

Wonder what would happen if sparks by the thousands stuck 2 fingers up the IET and the schemes?

Its not as if many people actually give a txss about the regs.

Percyprod · Apr 20, 2018

Regs are basically voluntary, after all, who checks on it? Sure, if you go to the book the work is tested and reported on by the electrician or bc, but if I do some work on my house, who will know, unless there is a serious problem. You can buy all the gear at any diy store, no control there. And 90% of the time there is no problem. If it is done to the 17th edition, great, doesn't need to be tested by an expert, although it is always a good idea. The price of the regs is a rip off, even allowing for it being a relatively small market. I can buy an amateur radio book, a much smaller market, a much bigger book for a fraction of the price.

Percyprod · Apr 20, 2018

Regs are basically voluntary, after all, who checks on it? Sure, if you go to the book the work is tested and reported on by the electrician or bc, but if I do some work on my house, who will know, unless there is a serious problem. You can buy all the gear at any diy store, no control there. And 90% of the time there is no problem. If it is done to the 17th edition, great, doesn't need to be tested by an expert, although it is always a good idea. The price of the regs is a rip off, even allowing for it being a relatively small market. I can buy an amateur radio book, a much smaller market, a much bigger book for a fraction of the price.

Percyprod · Apr 20, 2018

Don't know why it's uploaded twice, sorry!

Percyprod · Apr 20, 2018

Don't know why it's uploaded twice, sorry!

Colin33 · Apr 21, 2018

Rpa07 said:
Yet if any of us did go against it and, say refuse to be in a scam and just carry on certifying and giving to the customers only what they expect - ie the EIC EICR or MWC - no one would come after us. No one.
LABC don’t want anything to do with part P so they give it to the schemes to control.
Nothing would happen. Let’s do it - REVOLUTION!
Let’s have a cup of tea first though!

I've never been part of any scam/scheme. And you're right, because no one has ever come after me! Most of my work has been single new builds and renovation projects where Building control are already involved. I say to them that I'm fully qualified, are they happy for me to do the work? They say, "can you certify your work?" I say, "yes of course". At the end of the job a copy of the certification goes in their folder and job done. Only once has a BC guy asked to see my quals which I duly showed him, along with insurance of course. I've never understood why so many people bother with the scams when there are obviously ways around the system. I've never heard of anyone being taken to court for not complying with Part P unless of course they've been found to be doing sub-standard or dangerous work. So, as long as you're qualified and competent, and work to the regs, then what's to worry about? Finish that tea and join the revolution!

Midwest · Apr 21, 2018

Colin33 said:
I've never been part of any scam/scheme. And you're right, because no one has ever come after me! Most of my work has been single new builds and renovation projects where Building control are already involved. I say to them that I'm fully qualified, are they happy for me to do the work? They say, "can you certify your work?" I say, "yes of course". At the end of the job a copy of the certification goes in their folder and job done. Only once has a BC guy asked to see my quals which I duly showed him, along with insurance of course. I've never understood why so many people bother with the scams when there are obviously ways around the system. I've never heard of anyone being taken to court for not complying with Part P unless of course they've been found to be doing sub-standard or dangerous work. So, as long as you're qualified and competent, and work to the regs, then what's to worry about? Finish that tea and join the revolution!

Of course your right, I've not heard of many electricians being prosecuted for not being in a scheme as you've mentioned.

However, it is a criminal offence, not complying with Building regs (Part P), and punishable with a fine up to £5000. It may also be possible that your clients are complicit in the offence, and could also be liable, 'With all building work, the owner of the property (or land) in question is ultimately responsible for complying with the relevant planning rules and building regulations (regardless of the need to apply for planning permission and/or building regulations approval or not)' (Planning Portal).

So if your not complying with Sect 3.1 Part P (England & Wales), you're a very naughty boy, and putting your clients at risk of prosecution. You may also be invalidating your insurance.

So however guiling it is, and it is, its the law.

Midwest · Apr 21, 2018

Midwest said:
Let me know what that is

To be fair with OP, he offered to share his secret of job opportunity with me.

happysteve · Apr 21, 2018

dksanders said:
Yet to comply with 18th I'm going to have to take a 3 day top up course costing £520 and with 3 days loss of earnings, and the books, I'll be close to £2,000 out of pocket.

Some training centres will be offering a 1-day top-up course for those who already have the 2382-15 qualification (i.e. the 17th Edition to the 3rd Amendment) and who are already up to speed with the current Regs. In the morning you just go through the changes, and sit the exam in the afternoon, for (e.g.) £225 including certificate fees and VAT.

It's not ideal, but it's a bit cheaper than £520, and you only lose a day's work.

18th Edition cash cow for the IET

dksanders

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Midwest

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westward10

Octopus

buzzlightyear

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Rpa07

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westward10

Octopus

Percyprod

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Percyprod

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Percyprod

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Percyprod

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Colin33

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Midwest

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Midwest

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happysteve

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