Estimate of cost and what can and can't a none qualified person do?

Janon · Jul 4, 2018

Hello everyone.

We are starting a none-profit in the midlands and hopefully if all goes well we will have a commercial premises within the next couple months.

It is fed with three phase power and has a few sockets around the parameter of the unit as well as some horrid 8' tubes for lighting.

We plan on partitioning off part of the unit as well as making a couple rooms which will require sockets inside as well as lighting. We also want to install our own LED lighting throughout (not replace because we want to take what we install when we leave in a few years).

Ideally we would pay to get an electrician to do this all for us so it is all compliant with regs. But as a non-profit that is quite an expense that at the moment we can not afford.

What can and can't we do when it comes to modifying what is there?
There is a three phase CU there currently. The unit was built It looks okay and from the quick look I got (not been inside yet) it is all metal, has cable grommets and room for more circuits.

Would we (as in the competent electrical people within our organisation) be okay to add circuits to this CU and remove old ones?
When I say "competent electrical people" I mean none qualified personal that have good knowledge to the point where some have rewired their own homes even though they don't have certificates.

Not actually looking at replacing the CU, just adding and temporarily removing circuits.

Thanks
Anon

telectrix · Jul 4, 2018

if you have guys that are competent to do this work, nothing to stop you. part pee does not apply as it's not residential. however, BS7671 , although not statutory, calls for testing and certification. can your guys do that? your biggest hurdle would be if anyone was injured as a result of the work, you'd have difficulty proving, in a court of law, that your guys were competent.

Janon · Jul 4, 2018

telectrix said:
if you have guys that are competent to do this work, nothing to stop you. part pee does not apply as it's not residential. however, BS7671 , although not statutory, calls for testing and certification. can your guys do that? your biggest hurdle would be if anyone was injured as a result of the work, you'd have difficulty proving, in a court of law, that your guys were competent.

Thanks for the info.
Presuming doing the work ourselves and getting an electrician to test it would be best?

Pete999 · Jul 4, 2018

Janon said:
Thanks for the info.
Presuming doing the work ourselves and getting an electrician to test it would be best?

That would be difficult, there are not that many Sparkies who will carry out 3rd party certification, don't exactly know how Charitable concerns work, but installing electrics is NOT a DIY method especially 3 phase, can you not apply for a grant?

The Ghost · Jul 4, 2018

Rewired their own homes you say. That is an offence in itself with no EIC or building control certificate and may cause difficulties if they wish to sell their house aside from invalidating their insurance. Under H&S and EAWR you are required to maintain all electrical equipment in a safe condition for you and visitors etc. You can only prove you maintained in a safe condition with a full certificate for any work undertaken detailing all tests required meeting BS7671. Aside from invalidating your insurance you may be breaching certain legal requirements and your landlord may pay to have it rectified and it will get even more expensive than you originally feared. Get it done properly or not at all. You did ask!
It is not so much about qualification although that is mentioned, it is about competence to test and record those tests showing it is safe.

Joshua · Jul 4, 2018

I'm only going to echo what the others have said

If you think your guys are competent to do the work then there's nothing wrong with getting them to do the work and test it, if they're fully capable.

The only problem though is You're stating these guys are competent but they've never had any formal qualifications. How can you be 100% sure they know what they're doing? If they cause a fire and damage the building then would your insurance cover the damage?

I know you're saying you're a charity with limited funds but if you can't afford to get it done properly then it's not worth the risk in my opinion

I'm just worried you'll go ahead with getting your guys to install the work and then you'll find a cowboy who will offer to test the lot on the cheap and you won't know anything is dangerous until it's too late. Whatever way you decide just make sure and guarantee that the person you get to test it all have at least a level 3 in inspection and testing. Ask to see his city and guilds certificate and double check it's not written in crayon.

Doomed · Jul 4, 2018

I thought compatent person was no more....

'These changes will be reflected throughout the wiring regulations. For example, Regulation 134.1.1 has been changed from:

"Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. Electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment."

to:

"Good workmanship by skilled (electrically) or instructed (electrically) persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. The installation of electrical equipment shall take account of manufacturers’ instructions."'

Joshua · Jul 4, 2018

Doomed said:
I thought compatent person was no more....

'These changes will be reflected throughout the wiring regulations. For example, Regulation 134.1.1 has been changed from:

"Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. Electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment."

to:

"Good workmanship by skilled (electrically) or instructed (electrically) persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. The installation of electrical equipment shall take account of manufacturers’ instructions."'

You're right. . . And this was a perfect excuse to get out my shiny new 18th Edition book

But the Electricity at work regulations still say competent.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Estimate of cost and what can and can't a none qualified person do?

Deleted member 26818 · Jul 4, 2018

The term ‘3rd party certification’ is specific to Part P.
In commercial and some industrial installations it happens all the time. In many instances all 3 parts of the 3 part EIC are done by different firms.
As for qualified electricians doing the install work, happens all the time.
I started at a school in Walthamstow, towards the end of the job, to find the most qualified person already working there, was an Apprentice who’d been borrowed from another firm.
The Apprentice was doing the I&T.
At a college in Southend, the only qualified Electricians were the one doing the fire alarm and the BMS install. The one doing the fire alarm had to show the power and lighting guys how to wire 3 plate lighting.
Liverpool St station, another case where someone unqualified was doing the testing.
Was asked to help him out as the main contractors would not accept results from someone unqualified.

PEG · Jul 5, 2018

Hi,i am not sure what "none-profit" means,but the building,i presume,is a rental or lease arrangement,and the owners may be none to happy,with regard to having extra equipment installed,alongside existing,even on a temporary basis,by keen individuals.

You may intend to run the venture,as non-profit,but you will definitely require start-up funding,which would be for such tasks to be completed competently,and compliantly.

Even the "Wolf of Wall Street",got sparks in to sort his first office

telectrix · Jul 5, 2018

Doomed said:
I thought compatent person was no more....

'These changes will be reflected throughout the wiring regulations. For example, Regulation 134.1.1 has been changed from:

"Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. Electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment."

to:

"Good workmanship by skilled (electrically) or instructed (electrically) persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. The installation of electrical equipment shall take account of manufacturers’ instructions."'

even so, it does nowheremention qualified.

Bobster · Jul 5, 2018

It's the new offices for the NIC. They're non profit right?

OP - ignore this comment. It's a joke.

Wilko · Jul 5, 2018

My advice is to hunt up an experienced Electrician willing to help. There are many who do charitable works

.

Pete999 · Jul 5, 2018

Rob said:
It's the new offices for the NIC. They're non profit right?

OP - ignore this comment. It's a joke.

You wouldn't have said that Rob, if you had witnessed the blatant attempt to farm their Site Guide, at yesterdays debacle promoting the 18th Edition. I know you were joking before you respond.

Toneyz · Jul 5, 2018

Pete999 said:
You wouldn't have said that Rob, if you had witnessed the blatant attempt to farm their Site Guide, at yesterdays debacle promoting the 18th Edition. I know you were joking before you respond.

I thought at first when I saw the 18th on-site guide with the regs book it was the IET's never knew it was the NICEIC's version. They will be writing their own copy of BS7671 next.

Estimate of cost and what can and can't a none qualified person do?

Janon

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telectrix

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Janon

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Pete999

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The Ghost

Joshua

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Doomed

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Joshua

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Deleted member 26818

PEG

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telectrix

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Bobster

Wilko

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Pete999

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Toneyz

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