replacing a set of light switches in the stair way with PIR switches

Kaveh · Sep 13, 2018

Hi,

Does anyone know i its possible to replace a set of light switches in a stairway that all control the same lights with a set of PIR switches?
The current rocker switches have L1, L2 and COM but the PIR switch I am looging to replace them with only have L1 and L2.

Thanks

[ElectriciansForums.net] replacing a set of light switches in the stair way with PIR switches

littlespark · Sep 13, 2018

I don't think it can be done this way. Your PIR is a simple one way switch - on or off...
The switch you are replacing is a 2 way... ie, the Com(mon) switches over between L1 and L2

There may be a way of doing this with "Smart" devices.... but employing the services of a local spark will be your best course of action.

This is the same as another recent post concerning stairwell PIR's.
Same street?

telectrix · Sep 13, 2018

what he says ^^^^^. might be possible with some rejigging of wiring. insult a local spark.

Dillb · Sep 13, 2018

You wanting to swap from normal switches to PIRs?

Looking at the new switch it has a limits of maximum switching capacity, how many of what sort of light will they be switching?

MJPD29 · Sep 13, 2018

You need a 2 way pir but be careful not to get one which requires a neutral

Dillb · Sep 13, 2018

Matthewd29 said:
You need a 2 way pir

A what? Just wire them in parallel.

MJPD29 · Sep 13, 2018

Dillb said:
A what? Just wire them in parallel.

Its been a long day let that one slide

Dillb · Sep 13, 2018

Matthewd29 said:
Its been a long day let that one slide

Haha we all have those moments.

GeorgeCooke · Sep 13, 2018

You could leave the existing switches there and connect the PIR across the strappers.

Kaveh · Sep 14, 2018

Thanks All for your replies, I think I'll get an electrician, thought it be a simple swap out, @Dillb , yes, I want to swap from normal switches to PIRs they'll be switching five 28W D5 fluorescent bulbs.

Deuce · Sep 17, 2018

At work as a simple work around we fitted lights that have an inbuilt PIR sensor in the WCs. We left the original switches in place, although of course they're more or less pointless now.

We didn't even set out to do it that way, we just found a light fitting with the internal PIR when we went out to buy another standard one. It's been a useful upgrade for sure though.

Spoon · Sep 18, 2018

Deuce said:
we just found a light fitting with the internal PIR

Any change of a link to said fitting please.

Pete999 · Sep 18, 2018

Spoon said:
Any change of a link to said fitting please.

Dunno Spoon but there may be a chance if you look hard enough.

Deuce · Sep 18, 2018

Spoon said:
Any change of a link to said fitting please.

Without digging through invoices I think it's this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01HF1A2K4/ref=psdcmw_10709331_t2_B01HS5R4ZI

Although I see there are quite a few all roughly the same design, 360 degree pir in the centre and leds around the centre.

Another way to do it (if you want a specific light fitting) would be to use a smart bulb controlled remotely via a smarthome WiFi pir.

GeorgeCooke · Sep 18, 2018

How much power does the PIR take 24/7? Maybe 3 watts. When only switching a smallish load such as 16 watts there is little saving over leaving the light on for the 8 hour day. That is before taking into account the initial cost and installation charges.

Deuce · Sep 18, 2018

GeorgeCooke said:
How much power does the PIR take 24/7? Maybe 3 watts. When only switching a smallish load such as 16 watts there is little saving over leaving the light on for the 8 hour day. That is before taking into account the initial cost and installation charges.

Such cynical thinking

I think more like 20ma or less for most compact sensors, so not really a consideration.

Also the existing fitting may not be led, so the change itself could bring a general saving.

Not to mention they may not want their stair light on all night.

Octopus · Sep 18, 2018

Kaveh said:
Thanks All for your replies, I think I'll get an electrician, thought it be a simple swap out, @Dillb , yes, I want to swap from normal switches to PIRs they'll be switching five 28W D5 fluorescent bulbs.

Is this a block of flats ?

5 x D5 would be very unusual in a house ...

chris gray · Sep 19, 2018

Just break the switch wire with the pir?

Gardeners use bulbs!!!

Kaveh · Sep 22, 2018

sorry about the late reply, to answer to your questions:

- yes it is in block of flats, and its 2D not D5, sorry

- this is the PIR Schneider Screwless Flat Plate Stainless Steel PIR Light Switch GUP1411BSS | RS Electrical Supplies - https://www.rselectricalsupplies.co.uk/schneider-screwless-flat-plate-stainless-steel-pir-light-switch-gup1411bss_10656?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6-nfo7PO3QIVA7DtCh029QrrEAYYASABEgKy2PD_BwE/

It turns out that the PIR is not suitable for Florescent bulbs so I cant be used as intended.

I fitted it to the hallway which is connected to two x 40w halogen bulbs and I could hear a slight buzzing, it blew the PIR overnight so I guess it’s not suitable for halogens either...

So now I am thinking of something like this:

Kosnic 12W LED 2D 4PIN AMENITY REPLACEMENT SENSOR LAMPS - W40 - https://www.superlecdirect.com/p-kled12crd4pw40-kosnic-12w-led-2d-4pin-amenity-replacement-sensor-lamps-w40?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvdGbhbbO3QIVqrztCh0RwAhvEAQYDCABEgKs8_D_BwE

Deuce · Sep 22, 2018

Kaveh said:
sorry about the late reply, to answer to your questions:

- yes it is in block of flats, and its 2D not D5, sorry

- this is the PIR Schneider Screwless Flat Plate Stainless Steel PIR Light Switch GUP1411BSS | RS Electrical Supplies - https://www.rselectricalsupplies.co.uk/schneider-screwless-flat-plate-stainless-steel-pir-light-switch-gup1411bss_10656?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6-nfo7PO3QIVA7DtCh029QrrEAYYASABEgKy2PD_BwE/

It turns out that the PIR is not suitable for Florescent bulbs so I cant be used as intended.

I fitted it to the hallway which is connected to two x 40w halogen bulbs and I could hear a slight buzzing, it blew the PIR overnight so I guess it’s not suitable for halogens either...

So now I am thinking of something like this:

Kosnic 12W LED 2D 4PIN AMENITY REPLACEMENT SENSOR LAMPS - W40 - https://www.superlecdirect.com/p-kled12crd4pw40-kosnic-12w-led-2d-4pin-amenity-replacement-sensor-lamps-w40?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvdGbhbbO3QIVqrztCh0RwAhvEAQYDCABEgKs8_D_BwE

You just need to build up a small box containing a timer relay, of whatever rating is required to handle the lighting load.

Something like this: RS Pro Multi Function 10 Timer Relay, Screw, 0.1 s → 100 h, SPDT, 1 Contacts, SPDT, 12 → 240 V ac/dc | RS Components - https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/time-delay-relays/8966813/
That's 6 amp, but higher rated are available.

The PIR would send it's volt signal to the relay instead of turning on the lights directly, and you can configure the timer relay to energise energise the lighting circuit for a set length of time. If the PIR is still detecting movement the timer relay will keep the circuit energised indefinitely.

Hope this is some help for you.

Kaveh · Sep 23, 2018

thanks for the advice @Deuce

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Octopus

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