Sparks vs Plumbers... What's the score?

Deuce · Sep 19, 2018

What's the beef?

Unusually, I'm a member of both electricians forums and plumbers forums, I work across both areas, in fact I frequently combine water and electricity in many varied and fun ways!

This leads me to ask why sparks and plumbers are forever complaining about each other in their own circles? I wonder if it's something to do with one feeling the other has the easier job? A spark might feel that whilst they need qualification, anyone can plumb in most instances. Whereas a plumber might feel that a spark has the luxury of knowing a good job when they complete it will remain a good job for a very long time, but a plumber can do everything right and leak check, pressure test etc and then a day later, there is a leak - because they effectively work blind (in plumbing you rely upon method, you can rarely visually check the seal you create).

Or is it just because it's fun? I'm fine about it either way, just curious!

Deuce · Sep 19, 2018

Rosco said:
Don’t worry mate they will have you back because of a leak they find in a different part of the house absolutely nowhere near where you have worked but will blame you anyway, no matter what sparks and plumbers think of each other customers will try the same tricks to both of us

It was in my own house! But you're still correct - if at some point something else I never went near leaks, my wife will blame it on me, of that I'm certain

All trades can unite when discussing how inconvenient customers are. And wives.

Des 56 · Sep 20, 2018

When you make attempt at trying (usually unsuccessfully)at getting a understanding of complex subjects that take real brain power We as electricians and them as plumbers occupy very low stnding in the measure of such things

Consequently we are just as dumb as the plumbers and neither of us are prepared to admit it is so

Deuce · Sep 20, 2018

Des 56 said:
When you make attempt at trying (usually unsuccessfully)at getting a understanding of complex subjects that take real brain power We as electricians and them as plumbers occupy very low stnding in the measure of such things

Consequently we are just as dumb as the plumbers and neither of us are prepared to admit it is so

I don't know... I think that anything that requires visualisation of the end solution and how to achieve it, working around specific limitations and challenges demonstrates a fairly healthy noggin

On site I can have a fairly detailed conversation about some automation kit I'm putting together with either PB or spark and generally either would be able to appreciate the purpose of the system and how/why it needs to work the way it does. They won't necessarily have much knowledge depth, but understand the principals.

A colleague once said "It's 99% knowledge, then the other 1% is the ability to apply it. Only about 1% of people seem to have that ability though". I think his point was that knowledge is vital to do the work, but all the knowledge in the world won't help an impractical person assemble it into a good result!

ipf · Sep 20, 2018

Deuce said:
A colleague once said "It's 99% knowledge, then the other 1% is the ability to apply it. Only about 1% of people seem to have that ability though". I think his point was that knowledge is vital to do the work, but all the knowledge in the world won't help an impractical person assemble it into a good result!

….and all the practicability in the world won't help if you've no idea how to apply it by the rules.

7029 dave · Sep 20, 2018

Both trades demand the respect equally.

Flanders · Sep 20, 2018

Not sure if this post will help the debate ☺Wetpants Trashed My Van - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/wetpants-trashed-my-van.168453/

telectrix · Sep 20, 2018

Flanders said:
Not sure if this post will help the debate ☺Wetpants Trashed My Van - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/wetpants-trashed-my-van.168453/

most wet-pants can't see what in front of their noses, let alone what,s behind them. then again, both are usually turds.

Deuce · Sep 20, 2018

ipf said:
….and all the practicability in the world won't help if you've no idea how to apply it by the rules.

That's a big part of the other 99% being knowledge that I was referring to.

Deuce · Sep 20, 2018

telectrix said:
most wet-pants can't see what in front of their noses, let alone what,s behind them. then again, both are usually turds.

You're saying the van behind him was a turd?

ipf · Sep 21, 2018

telectrix said:
most wet-pants can't see what in front of their noses, let alone what,s behind them. then again, both are usually turds.

A mate of mine bought a house and asked me to check things over. It ended up with replacement CU , among other things. A couple of months later, this is work done by a 'heating engineer', who installed a new boiler to a property. He broke into the downstairs RFC with a 20 amp 4 p joint box, under the floor.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Sparks vs Plumbers... What's the score?

Deuce · Sep 21, 2018

ipf said:
A mate of mine bought a house and asked me to check things over. It ended up with replacement CU , among other things. A couple of months later, this is work done by a 'heating engineer', who installed a new boiler to a property. He broke into the downstairs RFC with a 20 amp 4 p joint box, under the floor.

Wow, 20amp on a RFC... I guess he just had one in the back of the van and figured waste not want not?

Just out of interest is it the case now that all boilers have to be on a dedicated radial? Or for certain sizes is it still ok to spur off the RFC to a FCU, or incorporate the FCU into the ring directly? I only ask as I noticed mine is on a ring, and I thought a few years ago there was a reg change about that. It might just be a CORGI internal standard, not a formal regulation as such.

ipf · Sep 21, 2018

Deuce said:
Wow, 20amp on a RFC... I guess he just had one in the back of the van and figured waste not want not?

Just out of interest is it the case now that all boilers have to be on a dedicated radial? Or for certain sizes is it still ok to spur off the RFC to a FCU, or incorporate the FCU into the ring directly? I only ask as I noticed mine is on a ring, and I thought a few years ago there was a reg change about that. It might just be a CORGI internal standard, not a formal regulation as such.

No need for a separate circuit. Depends on the heating system and size, really, but as long as there's local isolation and fuse, no problem.
In this case it was a quick repair job. I changed the JB, which was required anyway, but if I'd been installing the supply, I'd have put it on a new circuit for the sake of it......spares in the cu and only about 5 yards to the boiler.

GBDamo · Sep 21, 2018

Deuce said:
Another example: Most connections made by seasoned sparks are good, but few are 100% perfect. Let's say most are 99.9% as perfect as they could ever be though, and more than good enough. In a plumbers world a 99.9% perfect connection is an abject failure. 99.999% is still a tiny drip every 10 minutes and still a failure. It's 100% or failure.

Not quite so,

I've seen fluxed joints hold cold water at full mains pressure without a drip.

I've seen a tee in a central heating pipe that was never soldered, only started leaking after twenty years+ when a new radiator was fitted.

I've seen a pipe clipped onto a protruding nail that was holding water.

Funny thing luck.

Deuce · Sep 21, 2018

GBDamo said:
Not quite so,

I've seen fluxed joints hold cold water at full mains pressure without a drip.

I've seen a tee in a central heating pipe that was never soldered, only started leaking after twenty years+ when a new radiator was fitted.

I've seen a pipe clipped onto a protruding nail that was holding water.

Funny thing luck.

Well in all 3 cases, a perfect seal was in place = no leaks

I still stand by what I said though, an electrical connection has to be good enough. A plumbing connection has to be absolute or it's a failure. And yes, sheer luck or a surprise snug fit can achieve a perfect seal but it's not a method I would rely upon!!

I employ the services of both trades, so in the end I see the value and skill in both. They are two very different trades too, although both share a hell bent desire to be the first to fix to stuff up the others planned route through a building.

oracle · Sep 22, 2018

Getting a plumber to repair my boiler was difficult. After 5 or six calls one guy said he would come but it cost £100 to arrive at my door.

He came and asked for the money so I told him I would pay him before he left and could he look at the boiler.

We went to the bathroom and he glanced at it then said he didn't know the make and could I pay him now I said lucky you look there's information and drawings on the top of the boiler.

He read them and fiddled with it for a bit then said it was an electrical fault and I needed to call an electrician and could I pay him now. I said you are really lucky, I am an electrician

He pointed to a part of the boiler and said this valve isn't opening, so I checked for voltage and said it's got a supply your valve is stuck.

I don't know where to get a new one so can you pay me now. I gave him the drawings again and showed him the contact details for the supplier

He phoned them and ordered one. He said that it would take two days and cost £150 including fitting and could I pay him now. I gave him the £100 and said I would pay the rest when he got the boiler working

Two days later the job was done and I paid him the balance. Who said you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink?

Sparks vs Plumbers... What's the score?

Deuce

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Deuce

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Des 56

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Deuce

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ipf

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7029 dave

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Flanders

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telectrix

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Deuce

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Deuce

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ipf

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Deuce

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ipf

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GBDamo

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Deuce

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oracle

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