Lovely old Isolator found in Cellar

KEV 1 N · Nov 22, 2018

Found this in the cellar of an old house in Durham...

The neutral is fused so I’m guessing it’s “really old”
Any body know roughly the era it would be?

[ElectriciansForums.net] Lovely old Isolator found in Cellar

westward10 · Nov 23, 2018

There is a market research company at that address now just looked it up on Google Earth.

KEV 1 N · Nov 23, 2018

westward10 said:
There is a market research company at that address now just looked it up on Google Earth.

Yeah, i looked for it too, here’s what it looks like now. The house in Durham was similar to this....

westward10 · Nov 23, 2018

That's it be great to have a time machine and go back.

KEV 1 N · Nov 23, 2018

LeeH said:
Have you tried calling Mr Mauger? He even left his phone number...

Would be a call beyond the grave!

Squid · Nov 23, 2018

Pete999 said:
Not wanting to harp on about then and now Kev, but Electricians in those days cared about their craft and a pride in their work, seems that nowadays it's all Bish Bash, bung it in get paid and Foxtrot Oscar. Not all modern Sparkies are like that mind you, there still are some people, who have a pride factor in their work ethics, quite a few are Forum members.

The old fella I did some of my apprenticeship with said when he was training him and he sparks would turn up at the customers flat cap off and when entering the house would wear slippers when working.

Pete999 · Nov 23, 2018

SWD said:
The old fella I did some of my apprenticeship with said when he was training him and he sparks would turn up at the customers flat cap off and when entering the house would wear slippers when working.

Remember wearing soft shoes in peoples houses, part of the kit when you were jobbing. Mind you sometimes they came out dirtier than when you went in.

Lucien Nunes · Nov 23, 2018

A decent quality switchfuse in nice condition there. Would you get away with displaying it on the mantelpiece?

When that was put in, the main domestic applications for a 30A switchfuse would be cookers and submains, as there were no 30A socket-outlet circuits (15A outlets were always on 15A radials). When used for cookers and similar, prolonged heavy load often caused the wax plugs in the fuse carrier screw holes to discolour and distort or even start oozing out, so I am going to guess it was feeding a submain with modest load.

As a rule of thumb, DP fusing was standard before the war and SP from the beginning of the 1950s, because the change in regs allowed the assumption that the neutral would be solidly earthed and therefore did not require fusing. There were probably a lot of DP units still being fitted in the interim though, and odd supplies that still required DP fusing for long after. These days one is used to viewing anything with a fuse in the neutral as a hazard and a defect but it was standard and necessary up to that point because of the risk of a neutral fault to earth causing an overcurrent, if there was a significant potential between them. Many DP units remained in service with fuse wire in the neutral, although in industrial installations under the care of an electrical dept some did have solid links fitted.

I used to work in some locations with mainly prewar wiring right up to the millennium, including mainly DP switch and fusegear. I routinely put heavy wire in the neutral carriers, heavy enough to discriminate with the line fuse when clearing a fault.

A final interesting thing there is what looks like a screw-grip conduit coupler in the top. This was the forerunner to Conlok and was widely used in small sizes - 5/8" and 3/4" for domestic work, but less for the larger conduits (is this one 1" - it looks like it in the pic).
Did you see much of this type of conduit in the installation?

Pete999 · Nov 23, 2018

KEV 1 N said:
I agree with that, I did an EICR on 5 year old installation (offices, lecture rooms etc) and the faults for something so new, were unbelievable. The biggest headache was having to rewire a ring circuit in singles (metal trunking above ceiling and dado on the wall) that had 4mm L and E, and 2.5mm as the N!
The client gave me the EIC.....a waste of paper! Absolute shambles! I sometimes worry about making an error on my reports, but after reading that one I need not be worried!
So that isolator is nearly 80 year old....no way anything installed now is gonna last that long!

It was /is non combustible, Kev give some credit.

KEV 1 N · Nov 23, 2018

Lucien Nunes said:
A decent quality switchfuse in nice condition there. Would you get away with displaying it on the mantelpiece?

When that was put in, the main domestic applications for a 30A switchfuse would be cookers and submains, as there were no 30A socket-outlet circuits (15A outlets were always on 15A radials). When used for cookers and similar, prolonged heavy load often caused the wax plugs in the fuse carrier screw holes to discolour and distort or even start oozing out, so I am going to guess it was feeding a submain with modest load.

As a rule of thumb, DP fusing was standard before the war and SP from the beginning of the 1950s, because the change in regs allowed the assumption that the neutral would be solidly earthed and therefore did not require fusing. There were probably a lot of DP units still being fitted in the interim though, and odd supplies that still required DP fusing for long after. These days one is used to viewing anything with a fuse in the neutral as a hazard and a defect but it was standard and necessary up to that point because of the risk of a neutral fault to earth causing an overcurrent, if there was a significant potential between them. Many DP units remained in service with fuse wire in the neutral, although in industrial installations under the care of an electrical dept some did have solid links fitted.

I used to work in some locations with mainly prewar wiring right up to the millennium, including mainly DP switch and fusegear. I routinely put heavy wire in the neutral carriers, heavy enough to discriminate with the line fuse when clearing a fault.

A final interesting thing there is what looks like a screw-grip conduit coupler in the top. This was the forerunner to Conlok and was widely used in small sizes - 5/8" and 3/4" for domestic work, but less for the larger conduits (is this one 1" - it looks like it in the pic).
Did you see much of this type of conduit in the installation?

I don’t think the wife would appreciate it! Might find a place in the garage for it.

The coupler on the top is 1” but it’s actually an earth coupler, the screws are 2BA. I know the sort you mean when you refer to Conlok, I’ve seen elbows and tees on the smaller 5/8” conduit (usually lighting) , where the seam was unwelded, the joints push on and the screw nips up to the pipe.

There were other conduits from the other isolators and these were 3/4” with a welded seem and threaded ends into inspection elbows.

CACJL · Nov 24, 2018

KEV 1 N said:
Found this in the cellar of an old house in Durham...

The neutral is fused so I’m guessing it’s “really old”
Any body know roughly the era it would be?
View attachment 45906 View attachment 45907

Obviously pre WW2, with both sides fused it could be on a dc supply in those days, there was still some dc about here in Southampton till 1960.

coolsparx · Nov 25, 2018

Pete999 said:
Remember wearing soft shoes in peoples houses, part of the kit when you were jobbing. Mind you sometimes they came out dirtier than when you went in.

I have old but clean trainers in my van for working inside peoples houses when socks alone aren’t suitable.

telectrix · Aug 31, 2019

GBDamo said:
I take a little umbridge with that statement.

People get what they pay for and they are not prepared to pay for artisan craftsmen to install things.

My old man has said numerous times he earns less today than thirty years ago.

You get what you pay for, as long as it's compliant and safe, aesthetics come way down the list.

nail on head. i've lost count of the number of jobs i've lost through some wannabee underquoting, not by a few quid sometimes either. last one was a 30m run of SWA from Sw/F in meter box, to garage. 7 double sockets, 4 lights, 2 outside lights on PIR. 3 way garage CU, RCBO for sockets, all garage wiring singles in pvc conduit. my price was £1450. was undercut by a gut that quoted £800.

MJPD29 · Aug 31, 2019

telectrix said:
nail on head. i've lost count of the number of jobs i've lost through some wannabee underquoting, not by a few quid sometimes either. last one was a 30m run of SWA from Sw/F in meter box, to garage. 7 double sockets, 4 lights, 2 outside lights on PIR. 3 way garage CU, RCBO for sockets, all garage wiring singles in pvc conduit. my price was £1450. was undercut by a gut that quoted £800.

Best not even trying to challenge a quote like that. Just wait for the call when it's done to come and put right all the mistakes