Is Part 'P' enforceable?

Midwest · Sep 20, 2019

Taylortwocities said:
A certificate or a notification is no guarantee of anything.

One without such simple and essential things, you have to ask why.

Zerax · Sep 20, 2019

telectrix said:
part pee is a joke. at the time, it was a golden opportunity to make all electrical work ( excepting simple accessory swaps DIY) only to be carried out by qualified sparks, similar to the gas safe register, but apparently there was not enough clout brought to bear by the trade and insufficient income for the scams and the likes of b&q, who sell electrical equipment to any punter with the cash , to make this work. a case of a horse designed by a useless committee and the result being a a camel.

I mostly agree... however the problem I always have, is that membership of a scam does not prove competence. I know many sparks who are highly competent but not scam members... and I've come across quite a few scam members who are utterly clueless !

It's the same for Gas Safe too... I only trust one person to work on my gas and he's not a member... illegal I know, but I don't take the safety of myself or my family lightly.

richy3333 · Sep 20, 2019

Gas safe registered contractor!

[ElectriciansForums.net] Is Part 'P' enforceable?

ipf · Sep 20, 2019

richy3333 said:
Gas safe registered contractor!

View attachment 52396

How did you manage to get that socket there, let alone the FSU?......you took the rad off didn't you

Baddegg · Sep 20, 2019

richy3333 said:
Gas safe registered contractor!

View attachment 52396

Nice shot sir!

telectrix · Sep 20, 2019

richy3333 said:
Gas safe registered contractor!

View attachment 52396

sparks a shoulda had horizontal cable/s between socket and FCU. wake the silly gas safe sod up.

P10ness · Sep 21, 2019

Maybe a 90 degree valve would leave more room for the plugtop to fit in......

Deleted account · Sep 21, 2019

In answer to your original question

Is part P enforceable?

Yes there are ways to enforce it.

However is part P enforced?

No, however as mentioned solicitors are a lot more clued up on requirements and now ask for EIR and building notification certs as st@ndard.
Not sure when this started happening, but I’ve received a few requests for copies of certs that have been lost.
It’s a really good step in the right direction.
Given time everyone who sells or buys a property will learn the importance of these documents and start employing sparks who are able to notify instead of the man down the pub because they know in the future it will affect there property sales.

Zerax · Sep 21, 2019

Paignton pete said:
In answer to your original question

Is part P enforceable?

Yes there are ways to enforce it.

However is part P enforced?

No, however as mentioned solicitors are a lot more clued up on requirements and now ask for EIR and building notification certs as st@ndard.
Not sure when this started happening, but I’ve received a few requests for copies of certs that have been lost.
It’s a really good step in the right direction.
Given time everyone who sells or buys a property will learn the importance of these documents and start employing sparks who are able to notify instead of the man down the pub because they know in the future it will affect there property sales.

I love your optimism... but I've bought and sold many many houses over the years and the whole thing about having a certificate or not is never ever an issue. I fully expect the vendor to answer that question about any recent electrical works with a NO... I have never heard of any cases of legal action due to people incorrectly filling in that form.

I think if we are to change anything... we need to get building surveyors to actually survey ! and check everything out properly.

Devonchris · Sep 21, 2019

A couple who answered "no" on a standard conveyancing form which asked if they were aware of any disputes about the property they were selling have been found liable for fraudulent misrepresentation and have had to pay their buyers £67,500 in compensation and costs.

The case, which lawyers believe is the first of its kind, is a dire warning for anyone embroiled in a dispute with a neighbour who hopes to sell up and put it behind them. Anyone who sells a house in England and Wales has to fill in the seller's property information form, which has a standard question about disputes.

Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
Judgment was delivered at Portsmouth county court last October

Midwest · Sep 21, 2019

Zerax said:
I love your optimism... but I've bought and sold many many houses over the years and the whole thing about having a certificate or not is never ever an issue. I fully expect the vendor to answer that question about any recent electrical works with a NO... I have never heard of any cases of legal action due to people incorrectly filling in that form.

I think if we are to change anything... we need to get building surveyors to actually survey ! and check everything out properly.

Wish I had a Pound for every time I've said this...…………….when selling a property, you are required to complete & sign a legal document (as I did last year). One of the questions asked, is have you had any electrical work carried out since 2005. If so, supply copies of electrical certificates & compliance certificates.

Like Paignton pete, I've had old customers chasing me for copies of certificates, funnily enough when selling their house. So as pete said, perhaps things are slowly changing.

Zerax · Sep 22, 2019

Midwest said:
Wish I had a Pound for every time I've said this...…………….when selling a property, you are required to complete & sign a legal document (as I did last year). One of the questions asked, is have you had any electrical work carried out since 2005. If so, supply copies of electrical certificates & compliance certificates.

Like Paignton pete, I've had old customers chasing me for copies of certificates, funnily enough when selling their house. So as pete said, perhaps things are slowly changing.

And when the vendor says "I don't have it anymore/can't find it"... what happens then ? The buyer walks away ? The buyer stages a sit-in until the documents turn up ? The vendor can never sell the property ? etc. etc.

Would I not buy a property because there was a missing certificate ? No
Would I ask for a price reduction because of it ? Yes
Would I expect the vendor to say 'don't be ridiculous' ? Yes

But then that's just my view...

Midwest · Sep 22, 2019

Zerax said:
And when the vendor says "I don't have it anymore/can't find it"... what happens then ? The buyer walks away ? The buyer stages a sit-in until the documents turn up ? The vendor can never sell the property ? etc. etc.

Would I not buy a property because there was a missing certificate ? No
Would I ask for a price reduction because of it ? Yes
Would I expect the vendor to say 'don't be ridiculous' ? Yes

But then that's just my view...

Well I don't know about that, but my customers were pretty desperate to get a additional copies of certificates.

If there's no certificates, then its down to the buyer to make an informed judgement. We've seen loads of threads on here about work with no documents. EICR's, Regularisation documents, or the buyer just factors that into the negotiations. It may have been done properly & professionally; but if certificates are not available, you have got to ask why.

But my point is, is there is a legal document you sign, which requires you to declare all sorts of things, one of which is electrical work.

snowhead · Sep 22, 2019

Midwest said:
But my point is, is there is a legal document you sign, which requires you to declare all sorts of things, one of which is electrical work.

As with the Court case above, it's not the fact that there was or is currently any dispute and with Eleectrical that testing has or hasn't been done, it's signing a document and making a false declaration that's the Offence.

Simon47 · Sep 22, 2019

It's nothing at all to do with Part P

Part P is only a few words and merely says that electrical work has to be safe.
What is needed is Building Regs notification for certain types of work - which in England since 2013 has been "replacing a CU", "adding a circuit", or "work within the zones of a bathroom". If the works don't fall into any of those 3 categories then no notification is required - at all. But it must still be "safe" to comply with Part P. When the building regs changed in 2005, Appendix 4 made a lot of electrical work notifiable, but in (IIRC) 2013 most of that went and Appendix 2 (it moved) just specified the 3 types of work listed above.
Part P does not even specify compliance with BS7671, aka the wiring regs. The guidance for Part P says that compliance with BS7671 is one way to achieve compliance with part P - and so that's the easiest way to do it. Technically, if you have the skills and qualifications you could do whatever you want as long as you can show that it meets a similar level of safety.

As to your neighbour ...
If all he is doing is extending the RFC and lighting circuits then there is no notification requirement. As long as whoever does the work provides an EIC then that's all that's needed and LABC should be happy. The only hard part is that a DIYer isn't likely to have the equipment required to do the testing and complete an EIC.

Is Part 'P' enforceable?

Midwest

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Zerax

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richy3333

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ipf

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Baddegg

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telectrix

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P10ness

Deleted account

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Zerax

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Devonchris

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Midwest

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Zerax

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Midwest

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snowhead

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Simon47

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