Service head EICR

Igor Taranenko · Mar 20, 2021

Hi everyone,

Completed EICR for property recently and found there is a hole in the service head on neutral side, meaning live parts accessible by a finger. Photo attached.

Does anyone knows best way to repair it? I've tried to find replacement element but couldn't find anything.

Many thanks

loz2754 · Mar 20, 2021

What I'm seeing is a purposely designed knockout to enable connection of the earthing conductor.

hasel5 · Mar 20, 2021

On a series7 cutout you get a removable plastic grommet but this is nearly alway missing

UNG · Mar 20, 2021

hasel5 said:
This is seen at a vast majority of cutouts and is normal practice. And TBH it does make me worry that some people that are carrying out EICRs don't have the understanding of what is required and how to code the so called issues

Unfortunately the 2391 coupled with the 2382 is sold as the magic ticket to doing EICR's add in a copy of codebreakers and your good to go without having any core electrical knowledge or qualification and the experience to back it up

Igor Taranenko · Mar 20, 2021

I'm totally aware that this is DNO related issue but based on my experience with them I know they won't come for this one.

Very recently doing another EICR I had high Ze reading on TNSsupply. DNO said they will confirm if TNCS is available and once it is they were happy for me to connect earth conductor to fusehead neutral connection point so they don't need to come over.

Lister1987 · Mar 20, 2021

Paignton pete said:
@Lister1987 have a look at the picture and find the exposed live part.

I totally agree if there is an issue with the incoming then we do code it or report it or both.
if it’s an immediately dangerous situation I would not leave site until the issue was resolved or I had handed it over to the DNO.

In this instance with this incoming supply what do you see and how would you code it?

If I'm being completely honest it's a C code at best BUT if I deemed it to be a potential danger to the client (read: kids) then I'd like out my arse to get the DNO there to make them sort out. Sure it's only a bung and likelihood of any poking anything in there when a fault condition exists is extremely low but my integrity is worth more to me than a miffed off DNO agent, I'd rather waste Thier time and get it sorted than do nothing and something bad happen

westward10 · Mar 20, 2021

No Code and Regulations do not make allowances for children/kids.

SJD · Mar 20, 2021

So what about this one:

[ElectriciansForums.net] Service head EICR

Apparently a new meter was fitted couple of months ago, and it seems the meter fitter taped up the earth block, rather than fit the insert/cover. The tape has now come off. The customer is sure that the cover was not missing before.

My guess is the part perhaps fell of during fuse removal, fell to the concrete floor below and cracked.

UNG · Mar 20, 2021

Igor Taranenko said:
I'm totally aware that this is DNO related issue but based on my experience with them I know they won't come for this one.

You don't know unless you ask the DNO the question you have come on here with a concern about the service head yet you won't contact the DNO or their advice

Igor Taranenko said:
Very recently doing another EICR I had high Ze reading on TNSsupply. DNO said they will confirm if TNCS is available and once it is they were happy for me to connect earth conductor to fusehead neutral connection point so they don't need to come over.

I would be requesting they came out to repair the TNS earth, the last time I had a major problem with a TNS connection it was found that half the street had no earth

Did you get the authorisation in writing before you created the TNCS connection, I would be very cautious if it was a verbal authorisation and you did not get the name and job title of the person authorising it

Lister1987 · Mar 20, 2021

westward10 said:
No Code and Regulations do not make allowances for children/kids.

You say that but they do have an affect on how the inspector would perceive risk, it's why we have an external influence code for persons; from children up to skilled person.

Does it make me a bad engineer for going outside of the guides and documents we're told to work to, or does it make me a more con-che-n-tious (can't spell the word) engineer for looking at the bigger picture and wanting to have a better understanding as to why things are the way they are, why we have cutouts like these and why a missing cover is acceptable on 1 area but not another; I'm thinking diverted neutral currents going into the property and that section that is accessible becoming live, sure it's s million to one chance but so long as I can say I've done what I can to sort it, then I sleep better, if the DNO want to shrug and walk away, that's on them.

Igor Taranenko · Mar 20, 2021

UNG said:
You don't know unless you ask the DNO the question you have come on here with a concern about the service head yet you won't contact the DNO or their advice

I would be requesting they came out to repair the TNS earth, the last time I had a major problem with a TNS connection it was found that half the street had no earth

Did you get the authorisation in writing before you created the TNCS connection, I would be very cautious if it was a verbal authorisation and you did not get the name and job title of the person authorising it

You right I don't know the answer if I don't contact DNO.

In regards to other job they had improved Ze as PME connection was not feasible. They had to dig up the street to find the fault.

Pretty Mouth · Mar 20, 2021

Lister1987 said:
You say that but they do have an affect on how the inspector would perceive risk, it's why we have an external influence code for persons; from children up to skilled person.

Does it make me a bad engineer for going outside of the guides and documents we're told to work to, or does it make me a more con-che-n-tious (can't spell the word) engineer for looking at the bigger picture and wanting to have a better understanding as to why things are the way they are, why we have cutouts like these and why a missing cover is acceptable on 1 area but not another; I'm thinking diverted neutral currents going into the property and that section that is accessible becoming live, sure it's s million to one chance but so long as I can say I've done what I can to sort it, then I sleep better, if the DNO want to shrug and walk away, that's on them.

In a house full of bonded metalwork and earthed appliances, it's hard to see how covering up that small piece of exposed metal will be of benefit should the DNO's neutral go OC.

hasel5 · Mar 20, 2021

Question to Op did you find any other deviations when doing the EICR ?
If so do you want to share on here?

loz2754 · Mar 20, 2021

hasel5 said:
This is seen at a vast majority of cutouts and is normal practice. And TBH it does make me worry that some people that are carrying out EICRs don't have the understanding of what is required and how to code the so called issues

Indeed. Like in this photo:

This is no different from a safety point of view to the OP's photo. No code. No comment necessary.

Deleted account · Mar 20, 2021

Lister1987 said:
You say that but they do have an affect on how the inspector would perceive risk, it's why we have an external influence code for persons; from children up to skilled person.

Does it make me a bad engineer for going outside of the guides and documents we're told to work to, or does it make me a more con-che-n-tious (can't spell the word) engineer for looking at the bigger picture and wanting to have a better understanding as to why things are the way they are, why we have cutouts like these and why a missing cover is acceptable on 1 area but not another; I'm thinking diverted neutral currents going into the property and that section that is accessible becoming live, sure it's s million to one chance but so long as I can say I've done what I can to sort it, then I sleep better, if the DNO want to shrug and walk away, that's on them.

It is a no code. Not even an observation. Not an issue. No potential dangerous Situation. No need to contact DNO.

The point I was trying to make earlier was that I am concerned, but not about the cutout,

I am concerned and gobsmacked that anyone carrying out EICRs would not know this Was normal for a cutout. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

loz2754 · Mar 20, 2021

Paignton pete said:
It is a no code. Not even an observation. Not an issue. No potential dangerous Situation. No need to contact DNO.

The point I was trying to make earlier was that I am concerned, but not about the cutout,

I am concerned and gobsmacked that anyone carrying out EICRs would not know this Was normal for a cutout. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

I know it's true that not any one of us sparkies knows everything and has come across every type of installation practice, but this reinforces a comment I, and others, have made in several different threads on the subject of EICRs and who should be doing them.
And that is, inspection and testing requires, not only technical knowledge gained through formal training, but actual experience of the types of installation that you are inspecting. This kind of experience only comes with time, and preferably working alongside someone who has that experience.
Without such experience, how can a person pass judgement and award an appropriate code?

This current thread is a case in point. To me, and to several others who have commented, it's obvious what the recommendation should be, and if you have to ask.......

Service head EICR

Igor Taranenko

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