Twist or no twist

cliffed · Apr 24, 2021

Remembering back when I first started electrical 1970 the guys always twisted cables, one piece of green sleeving & twisted like a corkscrew,so tight when you separated them they bust off @ the ends.
2.5 mm twisted @ sockets & in connectors...these days wagos come to the rescue,does anyone twist the earth“s now @ sockets.
Just wondering I know it’s a No No with the new lads now.

Pete999 · Apr 24, 2021

cliffed said:
Remembering back when I first started electrical 1970 the guys always twisted cables, one piece of green sleeving & twisted like a corkscrew,so tight when you separated them they bust off @ the ends.
2.5 mm twisted @ sockets & in connectors...these days wagos come to the rescue,does anyone twist the earth“s now @ sockets.
Just wondering I know it’s a No No with the new lads now.

DO NOT TWIST makes testing a pain and is also unprofessional.

JBW175 · Apr 24, 2021

Twisting is the devils work, although I realise it was the right way years ago.

And then putting CPC’s all in one sleeving, seriously, who does that? ??

Mike Johnson · Apr 24, 2021

Pete999 said:
DO NOT TWIST makes testing a pain and is also unprofessional.

Interesting that what used to be the sign of a professional is now considered unprofessional, I wonder when that changed, rhetorical question.

snowhead · Apr 24, 2021

I was a twister, a wire end doubler, a Ring main labeller and a Fused spur fitter.
However I've succumbed to modern practice, I even use Wagos.

But be aware things are forever changing and in the future, current practices could likely be frowned upon.
Especially this practice of using 240volts within properties.

Mike Johnson · Apr 24, 2021

And using torque screwdrivers that split the unit in half when used at anything over hand tight. ?

ipf · Apr 24, 2021

snowhead said:
I was a twister, a wire end doubler, a Ring main labeller and a Fused spur fitter.
However I've succumbed to modern practice, I even use Wagos.

But be aware things are forever changing and in the future, current practices could likely be frowned upon.
Especially this practice of using 240volts within properties.

Me too.....gave 'em up donkeys years back.
......but your in for it... for mentioning 240, these days.

Dustydazzler · Apr 24, 2021

I started electrics in the late 90s and was told never twist solid cores as it makes them brittle

That said I have worked with older sparks who twist solid cores together as their line of thinking was if the terminal screw came loose then the cores are still making good contact with each other due to the twists.
which when you think about it actually makes some sense

telectrix · Apr 24, 2021

Dustydazzler said:
I started electrics in the late 90s and was told never twist solid cores as it makes them brittle

That said I have worked with older sparks who twist solid cores together as their line of thinking was if the terminal screw came loose then the cores are still making good contact with each other due to the twists.
which when you think about it actually makes some sense

if the screws are properly tightenred, they won't come loose .twisted solid cores can snapthrough metal fatigue. 6 or half a dozen?

snowhead · Apr 24, 2021

ipf said:
Me too.....gave 'em up donkeys years back.
......but your in for it... for mentioning 240, these days.

I'm not fooled by the pseudo label of 230v, it's just a paper exercise.

ipf · Apr 24, 2021

snowhead said:
I'm not fooled by the pseudo label of 230v, it's just a paper exercise.

If you want to come that, I'm not by the fused spur fitting......or the RM labels, come to that.

static zap · Apr 26, 2021

Mike Johnson said:
wonder when that changed, rhetorical question.

... I know its not a question .. But here's an answer or two.

-- Cost cutting -More speed -Less sound engineering-
-JUST in case...Gets shoved under the carpet.

a).. So the Quality of the screwed containment has gone up ? ..

(Screwed -is the appropriate word) .. Time is money .
(a bit like wet pants using - Plastic for cold water )
..and a whole new Legionella -prevention business (scam)

Twisty is definitely a cause of metal fatigue IF it has to be disturbed for testing.

b) --- Less testing back then .. ?

ipf · Apr 26, 2021

static zap said:
... I know its not a question .. But here's an answer or two.

-- Cost cutting -More speed -Less sound engineering-
-JUST in case...Gets shoved under the carpet.

a).. So the Quality of the screwed containment has gone up ? ..

(Screwed -is the appropriate word) .. Time is money .
(a bit like wet pants using - Plastic for cold water )
..and a whole new Legionella -prevention business (scam)

Twisty is definitely a cause of metal fatigue IF it has to be disturbed for testing.

b) --- Less testing back then .. ?

Less testing for sure but it was for life........or ‘till it broke. ?

cliffed · Apr 28, 2021

Here’s one found on EICR bout 30 + years old?

pc1966 · Apr 28, 2021

ipf said:
Less testing for sure but it was for life........or ‘till it broke. ?

How often are the sockets untwisted for test? I would guess only if an open ring was seen at the CU and other means of isolating the break had failed (e.g. wander lead, or shorting L-E on one leg and looking for the open L-E to short L-E at sockets, etc), so probably infrequent.

Twisting the CU wires would be an major reliability issue for EICR, etc, as they need to come out and be separated every time, but also most CU terminals are much better are taking and reliably clamping two wires than socets, etc.

littlespark · Apr 28, 2021

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned earlier, but previously twisted conductors don’t hold well in MF connectors such as WAGO.

You need to cut back to find a straight bit of copper

telectrix · Apr 28, 2021

littlespark said:
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned earlier, but previously twisted conductors don’t hold well in MF connectors such as WAGO.

You need to cut back to find a straight bit of copper

just had similar with lighting cpc's twisted. 3 conductors in 1 sleeve. replacing 11 standard rose/pendants with fancy lights. took ages to untwist and straighten the cpc's. should have been finished by 3. finally packed up tools at 10 past 6. 3 hours drinking time wasted.

Dustydazzler · Apr 28, 2021

Do the twist ...

ipf · Apr 28, 2021

pc1966 said:
How often are the sockets untwisted for test? I would guess only if an open ring was seen at the CU and other means of isolating the break had failed (e.g. wander lead, or shorting L-E on one leg and looking for the open L-E to short L-E at sockets, etc), so probably infrequent.

Twisting the CU wires would be an major reliability issue for EICR, etc, as they need to come out and be separated every time, but also most CU terminals are much better are taking and reliably clamping two wires than socets, etc.

Yes, that's the whole point. What I'm saying is that it was done without thought for any future inspection. Look at #14 photo, 30 years old and looks solid as a rock, done properly.......but , who can be sure, eh? And that's why inspections are insisted upon.
You inspect that (#14) visually. Dismantle at your own peril. Just put the g/sleeving back on.

I'm not saying it's correct these days, and hate it personally, but that's the way things were.

Mike Johnson · May 1, 2021

The IET "On Site Guide" shows conductors twisted together on page's 106 and 107 for continuity testing, that could be taken as approval of the method.

DPG · May 1, 2021

Mike Johnson said:
The IET "On Site Guide" shows conductors twisted together on page's 106 and 107 for continuity testing, that could be taken as approval of the method.

Just symbolic, to indicate a connection though? Not advice on how permanent connections should be made.

Lister1987 · May 1, 2021

telectrix said:
just had similar with lighting cpc's twisted. 3 conductors in 1 sleeve. replacing 11 standard rose/pendants with fancy lights. took ages to untwist and straighten the cpc's. should have been finished by 3. finally packed up tools at 10 past 6. 3 hours drinking time wasted.

Make it into a drinking game, untwist drink, untwist drink ?

Mike Johnson · May 1, 2021

DPG said:
Just symbolic, to indicate a connection though? Not advice on how permanent connections should be made.

If so they could have diagrammatically shown as in BS7671 in a terminal block, no need to have shown conductors twisted together and given tacit approval to the method of connection.

DPG · May 1, 2021

Mike Johnson said:
If so they could have diagrammatically shown as in BS7671 in a terminal block, no need to have shown conductors twisted together and given tacit approval to the method of connection.

I agree to be honest. I don't think it is a good idea showing it like this.

ipf · May 1, 2021

DPG said:
I agree to be honest. I don't think it is a good idea showing it like this.

It's poor, that.

Just watch....next amendment it'll be a lever wago with IET labelling.......

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