Where to buy nylon screws?

HappyHippyDad · May 15, 2021

I want to replace some metal socket screws with nylon screws.

I can only find 25mm ones. I really need a selection, at least 35mm i would think, preferably a few 40mm ones as well.

If they are impossible to find, then I guess I could use the extenders, but I'd much rather have a selection of varying sized nylon.

Does anyone know where to purchase them?

nicebutdim · May 15, 2021

35mm

Also Teknipart offer a range of sizes, but nothing longer than 35mm

ipf · May 15, 2021

There's plenty on the internet.....but interested to know why you need them for socket outlets, they're part of the earthing arrangement.
Generally used for light switches where no earth is available.

Dartlec · May 15, 2021

ipf said:
There's plenty on the internet.....but interested to know why you need them for socket outlets, they're part of the earthing arrangement.
Generally used for light switches where no earth is available.

And perhaps arguable then too.

410.3.9 - Provision for fault protection may be omitted for the following equipment:

...

(iii) exposed-conductive-parts which, owing to their reduced dimensions (approximate maximum of 50mmx50mm) or their disposition cannot be gripped or come into significant contact with a part of the human body and provided that connection with a protective conductor could only be made with difficulty or would be unreliable

NOTE: This exemption applies, for example, to bolts, rivets, nameplates, cable clips, screw and other fixings...

...

(Excuse typos...)

Sparky Ninja has a video on this (from about 6.00) which persuaded me.

Did buy some on ebay a while back anyway, but the only places I've recently come across lighting with no earth the back boxes have been the same vintage, metal with insulated socket tabs so didn't see the need.

i=p/u · May 15, 2021

Only use is electronics.

Dartlec · May 15, 2021

i=p/u said:
Only use is electronics.

Non-conducting locations perhaps too? Never seen one in the flesh so don't know the requirements.

I have seen a few properties with rusted back boxes because of damp walls, so I guess plastic back boxes and plastic screws might have a place then.... though probably fixing the damp is the correct long term answer!

HappyHippyDad · May 15, 2021

ipf said:
There's plenty on the internet.....but interested to know why you need them for socket outlets, they're part of the earthing arrangement.
Generally used for light switches where no earth is available.

My mistake. I've always called them socket screws. They are for lights switches.

Dartlec said:
And perhaps arguable then too.

410.3.9 - Provision for fault protection may be omitted for the following equipment:
...
(iii) exposed-conductive-parts which, owing to their reduced dimensions (approximate maximum of 50mmx50mm) or their disposition cannot be gripped or come into significant contact with a part of the human body and provided that connection with a protective conductor could only be made with difficulty or would be unreliable
NOTE: This exemption applies, for example, to bolts, rivets, nameplates, cable clips, screw and other fixings...
...
(Excuse typos...)

Sparky Ninja has a video on this (from about 6.00) which persuaded me.

Did buy some on ebay a while back anyway, but the only places I've recently come across lighting with no earth the back boxes have been the same vintage, metal with insulated socket tabs so didn't see the need.

Gosh, I didn't know that reg existed! It makes it pretty clear fault protection can be omitted.

nicebutdim · May 15, 2021

Slightly off topic, but follows on with the same theme...

I've seen a few youtubers talk about resolving EICR issues where no earth is available at lighting points, and Class I fittings or metal switch plates are installed, by changing to plastic switches and class II lights.

Am I correct in understanding that this is not a suitable solution as they are undertaking work that doesn't meet current regulations?

Might have presented this with poor wording, but hopefully the underlying question is apparent.

timhoward · May 15, 2021

nicebutdim said:
Slightly off topic, but follows on with the same theme...

I've seen a few youtubers talk about resolving EICR issues where no earth is available at lighting points, and Class I fittings or metal switch plates are installed, by changing to plastic switches and class II lights.

Am I correct in understanding that this is not a suitable solution as they are undertaking work that doesn't meet current regulations?

Might have presented this with poor wording, but hopefully the underlying question is apparent.

BPG4 (EICRs) points us to BPG1 (CU Changes) on this issue.

https://tinyurl.com/4e75c95r

[ElectriciansForums.net] Where to buy nylon screws?

and there's more afterwards for if the customer won't do it.

nicebutdim · May 15, 2021

That's clear enough. It was the idea of effecting a solution that wasn't to current regs, which didn't sit right with me.

I should probably read the Best Practice Guides as they may address other issues that I haven't yet reconciled.

Dartlec · May 16, 2021

nicebutdim said:
That's clear enough. It was the idea of effecting a solution that wasn't to current regs, which didn't sit right with me.

I should probably read the Best Practice Guides as they may address other issues that I haven't yet reconciled.

I guess the argument it is that replacing an existing faceplate that causes danger with one that removes that danger is within the spirit of good practice - and that a replacement is not the same as a new installation?

I think in a domestic rental EICR I'd be cautious about doing much in the way of remedial work on a circuit to get a satisfactory in that situation though. But then again the chances of being able to rewire in 28 days are slim, so it is a temporary solution to a present situation.

There are surprisingly many houses that still have that age wiring - a testimony to how well PVC cabling lasts I guess..

I can think of at least 4 properties (only one rental) I've been to in just the last 6 months that were wired that way.

Dartlec · May 16, 2021

happyhippydad said:
My mistake. I've always called them socket screws. They are for lights switches.

Gosh, I didn't know that reg existed! It makes it pretty clear fault protection can be omitted.

Yep, I only ran into it because of the Spark Ninja video, which was mostly about earthing back boxes with a flylead or not - (and he said he would anyway in new installs).

Sometimes I pick up nuggets like this that I'd never get from any amount of time reading the book cover to cover ...

westward10 · May 16, 2021

It is clear enough in BS7671 that Class II protection should only be used in monitored environments that would not include a dwelling.

nicebutdim · May 16, 2021

westward10 said:
It is clear enough in BS7671 that Class II protection should only be used in monitored environments that would not include a dwelling.

Brings us back to my original thoughts, but what about BPG4 statement?

I'm guessing the replacement of Class 1 lighting and metal switchplates, where no CPC is present, would not be acceptable as an initial recommendation, but is it an acceptable means of risk reduction where a homeowner refuses the option of bringing CPC to each point?

I think it was a couple of Nick Bundy videos where he mentioned replacing replacing lights or accessories when CPC had been absent. Perhaps he had discussed options with the client and they had refused all offered solutions, but the way he had commented gave the impression that this was something he deemed to be acceptable.

westward10 · May 16, 2021

nicebutdim said:
Brings us back to my original thoughts, but what about BPG4 statement?

I'm guessing the replacement of Class 1 lighting and metal switchplates, where no CPC is present, would not be acceptable as an initial recommendation, but is it an acceptable means of risk reduction where a homeowner refuses the option of bringing CPC to each point?

I think it was a couple of Nick Bundy videos where he mentioned replacing replacing lights or accessories when CPC had been absent. Perhaps he had discussed options with the client and they had refused all offered solutions, but the way he had commented gave the impression that this was something he deemed to be acceptable.

It may well be a risk reduction but the wants of the homeowner shouldn't be a factor. If we find this we only give one option and they can take it or leave it, risk reduction wouldn't even be considered it is their home and shouldn't be your problem. As for BPG4 do you follow this or BS7671 Regulation 412.1.2, I know which I will follow.

Where to buy nylon screws?

HappyHippyDad

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nicebutdim

ipf

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Dartlec

i=p/u

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Dartlec

HappyHippyDad

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nicebutdim

timhoward

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nicebutdim

Dartlec

Dartlec

westward10

nicebutdim

westward10

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