Is pvc pvc T&E soon to be written off ?

Dustydazzler · Mar 16, 2021

I made a very rare trip to my local wholesalers today (I usually buy stuff online now and have it delivered) and was speaking to the manager who I have known since college.
He reckons in the coming amendment to the regs , grey pvc pvc twin and earth cable will be written off and we will be required to use LSF / LSOH cable domestically...

anyone else heard this ?

UNG · Mar 17, 2021

Dartlec said:
Don't think I've ever seen PVC wiring that has failed other than damage or a loose connection at a terminal - even the 60s stranded stuff.

I was installing stranded 2.5mm T&E in the early 1980's, I believe the only company manufacturing it at the time was AEI. Pilkingtons Glass specified it for parts of a big new factory project they were building at the time, I went to AEI in Leigh and collected 4000m every fortnight or a couple of months

Dustydazzler said:
good , can’t stand mini sticky trunking anyways,
nothing smacks more of a diy job than cables run in sticky back trunking

So what do you use for the non diy look then
There is nothing wrong with properly installed minitrunking the problem is a lot of so called electricians can't

Marvo said:
Maybe pyro will come back into fashion...

I wish

DefyG · Mar 17, 2021

nicebutdim said:
South of England generally sees the use of white T&E

I was (perhaps incorrectly) informed back around 2005 (coinciding with harmonisation of cable colours) that only LSF came with 'White' sheath, the 'normal' T&E was in now Grey sheathed!

Dustydazzler · Mar 17, 2021

Marvo said:
Maybe pyro will come back into fashion...

NO CHANCE , 5 day domesticated installers wouldn't have a clue how to wire new lights in Pyro

Dustydazzler · Mar 17, 2021

UNG said:
I was installing stranded 2.5mm T&E in the early 1980's, I believe the only company manufacturing it at the time was AEI. Pilkingtons Glass specified it for parts of a big new factory project they were building at the time, I went to AEI in Leigh and collected 4000m every fortnight or a couple of months

So what do you use for the non diy look then
There is nothing wrong with properly installed minitrunking the problem is a lot of so called electricians can't

I wish

Galv Conduit

Rockingit · Mar 17, 2021

Dartlec said:
Don't think I've ever seen PVC wiring that has failed other than damage or a loose connection at a terminal - even the 60s stranded stuff.

I have, and most bizarrely! I'll have to dig through the archives to find a pic but 2-3 years ago a mate had a new problem in their (old) house that they'd been in for years and after some testing I'd narrowed it down to one cable that I could see both ends of, about 5m long and in visually perfect condition, not disturbed since installation many years earlier. After some headscratching and guestimation I peeled open a section of sheath to discover that there was a manufacturing break in the conductor, clearly a good couple of mm. There must have been enough of a bend or whatever at that point to have made the ends make contact and 'work' for the twenty odd years it had, but there was no signs of arcing etc. Most bizarre.

Timbo · Mar 17, 2021

Marvo said:
Maybe pyro will come back into fashion...

I love Pyro. ?

nicebutdim · Mar 17, 2021

DefyG said:
I was (perhaps incorrectly) informed back around 2005 (coinciding with harmonisation of cable colours) that only LSF came with 'White' sheath, the 'normal' T&E was in now Grey sheathed!

I'd always understood (albeit from a layman's position) that PVC T&E was grey and LSF was white, but over time have read several discussions about white T&E having long been used in some areas of Southern England.

It's possible that this has always been LSF, but those discussions led me to believe otherwise. From what I could ascertain, white T&E was used as this was what some wholesalers stocked.

This use of white cable is sort of a grey area for me.

pc1966 · Mar 17, 2021

There was a case recently on this forum with some low IR T&E in otherwise good looking condition, probably a crap make/batch though.

Also I recently IR tested a hired cabin after it tripped the RCD, trip was down to water getting in to an outdoor connector, but in doing so I found each circuit's L or N was showing 0.5M (or a little less) to E, and they could only be 5m or so of cable tops!

nicebutdim · Mar 17, 2021

pc1966 said:
There was a case recently on this forum with some low IR T&E in otherwise good looking condition, probably a crap make/batch though.

IIRC the cable with low IR discussed on this forum was grey. There have been a couple of Youtube videos about such cable, with Efixx recently focusing on the subject of 'fake' cable, but all the T&E involved was also grey

nicebutdim · Mar 17, 2021

These guys don't half churn out content - this is from late last year, but had to scroll back about 50 videos to find them!

UNG · Mar 17, 2021

Rockingit said:
I have, and most bizarrely! I'll have to dig through the archives to find a pic but 2-3 years ago a mate had a new problem in their (old) house that they'd been in for years and after some testing I'd narrowed it down to one cable that I could see both ends of, about 5m long and in visually perfect condition, not disturbed since installation many years earlier. After some headscratching and guestimation I peeled open a section of sheath to discover that there was a manufacturing break in the conductor, clearly a good couple of mm. There must have been enough of a bend or whatever at that point to have made the ends make contact and 'work' for the twenty odd years it had, but there was no signs of arcing etc. Most bizarre.

Didn't have an AFDD installed??
Is that evidence we do need them

Rockingit · Mar 17, 2021

UNG said:
Didn't have an AFDD installed??
Is that evidence we do need them

Now then.... go outside, say twenty Hail Mary's and never set foot in this hallowed place again.....

robd · Jun 23, 2021

The fact that a manager at a wholesaler should even think he knows about things that might happen in the regs before a time served electrician is depressing in its self and all that's wrong with the trade in my opinion

Lucien Nunes · Jun 23, 2021

nicebutdim said:
I'd always understood (albeit from a layman's position) that PVC T&E was grey and LSF was white, but over time have read several discussions about white T&E having long been used in some areas of Southern England.
It's possible that this has always been LSF, but those discussions led me to believe otherwise. From what I could ascertain, white T&E was used as this was what some wholesalers stocked.

This is correct. Before LSF T+E was available, one could get both white and grey PVC and some wholesalers had both, I think grey was marginally cheaper but white was usually more suitable where visible.

Dartlec · Jun 23, 2021

Lucien Nunes said:
This is correct. Before LSF T+E was available, one could get both white and grey PVC and some wholesalers had both, I think grey was marginally cheaper but white was usually more suitable where visible.

Are we talking 80s here? I assumed white was the norm switched to at some time in the 70s, right up until the colour change. Had no idea it was a regional issue - but literally every house I see with 80s on wiring is in white here (Kent/London) (including my own) - and pretty sure it's not all LSF....

Zerax · Jun 24, 2021

Lucien Nunes said:
This is correct. Before LSF T+E was available, one could get both white and grey PVC and some wholesalers had both, I think grey was marginally cheaper but white was usually more suitable where visible.

I've still got half a reel of white PVC/PVC T&E in old colours...

nicebutdim · Jun 24, 2021

Dartlec said:
Are we talking 80s here? I assumed white was the norm switched to at some time in the 70s, right up until the colour change. Had no idea it was a regional issue - but literally every house I see with 80s on wiring is in white here (Kent/London) (including my own) - and pretty sure it's not all LSF....

I've never seen PVC T&E in any colour other than grey.

Dustydazzler · Jun 24, 2021

Zerax said:
I've still got half a reel of white PVC/PVC T&E in old colours...

a sealed roll of old colour 2.5 sells for about £100 on eBay £££

littlespark · Jun 24, 2021

I see white t&e on a job where the rest is grey and I think “b&q diy job”

Certainly wasn’t lsoh.

Dustydazzler · Jun 24, 2021

You can’t get old colours in B&Q ?

Dartlec · Jun 24, 2021

Dustydazzler said:
a sealed roll of old colour 2.5 sells for about £100 on eBay £££

[ElectriciansForums.net] Is pvc pvc T&E soon to be written off ?

Knew I had some in a box somewhere - £50 to anyone who asks nicely... ?

No idea why 16.5m was a sensible length either??

Rockingit · Jun 24, 2021

Dartlec said:
View attachment 87046

Knew I had some in a box somewhere - £50 to anyone who asks nicely... ?

No idea why 16.5m was a sensible length either??

50'

UNG · Jun 24, 2021

On some older jobs I've been to the looped cables are in grey T&E and the switch drops in white T&E I assume this was to make the switch drops easily identifiable when rewiring

pc1966 · Jun 24, 2021

Rockingit said:
50'

It is just over 54' so not that either...

lozarus · Jun 24, 2021

100% the old 'white t&e' was not LSOH. I've seen discussions elsewhere and noone seems to know why two variants were produced, but distribution does appear to be regional. Here in the Midlands you could get grey at one shop, walk into another and it was white.
The only trend I noticed was the white stuff seemed more prevalent in DIY type shops. I'mm looking at a length now - it's just normal supple PVC, but white. Then post 2004 it became LSOH.

On the contrary at our site, there's some grey "old colour" t&e marked as LSOH

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