borrowed neutral (follow up)

saint elmo · Aug 11, 2021

just thought i would share this i posted about in a previous thread.

1st and 2nd pic- red and white wires going into landing light (connected to downstairs circuit)

3rd and 4th pic- red wire going down, white wire going into the junction box for the upstairs lighting circuit connecting to neutral

5th pic-red wire coming down into upstairs 2 way landing light switch

timhoward · Aug 11, 2021

I agree that it appears from the photos the Switched Live is coming from the downstairs circuit and the Neutral for the Landing light is coming from the upstairs circuit.
The thing is, there are so many issues in the photo's that I wouldn't advise tackling this.
It looks to my sleepy eyes as though the red and white are single insulated? Big safety issue....
I think I can see 2.5 and 1.5 T+E cables in the same junction boxes, suggesting maybe lighting and sockets are intertwined too.
No Earth sleeving anywhere.
Awful CPC termination.
Missing sleeving on strappers.
Basically a right mess!

What needs to happen in my view is the upstairs lighting circuit needs a rewire, the white and red wires need taking safely out of service (including at the switch downstairs). The Landing light needs to move entirely to the upstairs circuit.
Then either a new 3 core switch wire or Quinetics switches.
Even though you clearly have knowledge and understanding I would still say this is one for a sparks as it's really quite a mess.

saint elmo · Aug 11, 2021

timhoward said:
I agree that it appears from the photos the Switched Live is coming from the downstairs circuit and the Neutral for the Landing light is coming from the upstairs circuit.
The thing is, there are so many issues in the photo's that I wouldn't advise tackling this.
It looks to my sleepy eyes as though the red and white are single insulated? Big safety issue....
I think I can see 2.5 and 1.5 T+E cables in the same junction boxes, suggesting maybe lighting and sockets are intertwined too.
No Earth sleeving anywhere.
Awful CPC termination.
Missing sleeving on strappers.
Basically a right mess!

What needs to happen in my view is the upstairs lighting circuit needs a rewire, the white and red wires need taking safely out of service (including at the switch downstairs). The Landing light needs to move entirely to the upstairs circuit.
Then either a new 3 core switch wire or Quinetics switches.
Even though you clearly have knowledge and understanding I would still say this is one for a sparks as it's really quite a mess.

yes those red and white wires are single insulated
2.5 and 1.5 T+E cables- yeah thats all lighting and switch cable no rhyme or reason to the size used
all cable has been accounted for and is easier than it looks
they have used 2+E instead of 3+E to connect downstairs switch to upstairs switch hence the need to tap into the upstairs neutral

Julie. · Aug 11, 2021

It's not necessarily about understanding where the wires come from, that installation breaks so many regulations and exhibits many very bad practices, such that it doesn't need a bit of a fix here and there, what it needs is completely sorting; running cables and rewiring etc in line with the regulations.

I assume that the rest of the property is similarly bad, so perhaps you need to get someone in to check it out properly.

It isn't just about getting the wires to the right place, it's about making sure it is safe in all aspects.