PIR lights and RCD question

WoodenSpoon · Aug 23, 2021

Hi there.

Can somebody advise on this situation with the latest wiring regs and whether an RCD is required at the CU.

New PIR lights required front and back of house. There is a ring main socket at top of stairs which has space next to it for a 3amp FCU. Plan would be 1.5mm twin and earth in conduit from this FCU directly through the wall into a waterproof junction box which is above a garage. 1.0 or 0.75mm pond flex from junction to lights front and back, which are low powered 20w LEDs.

The upstairs ring main is not rcd protected. The wiring and lights outside will not be accessible unless you use a ladder and climb on the garage roof however I believe that this may still require RCD protection at the CU?

I'm guessing an RCD FCU or RCD plug into existing socket would still not comply? I'm confused thanks.

telectrix · Aug 23, 2021

my take on this is that although the outside lights theemselves do not require RCD protection installed as per your ost, the RFC that you are altering should be brought up to current standards. i.e. RCD protection for the whole circuit.

westward10 · Aug 23, 2021

If this is a dwelling the additional lights will need additional rcd protection. Can you show a pic of your consumer unit.

telectrix · Aug 23, 2021

westward10 said:
If this is a dwelling the additional lights will need additional rcd protection. Can you show a pic of your consumer unit.

i forgot the bit about luminaires in dwellings. if the buggers used plain english and said lights?????

buzzlightyear · Aug 23, 2021

If you are altering a cable then a RCD should be in place.some one has said it before me.

WoodenSpoon · Aug 23, 2021

westward10 said:
If this is a dwelling the additional lights will need additional rcd protection. Can you show a pic of your consumer unit.

It's an old squareD CU. It's a family members not mine. There is one old RCBO protecting the kitchen sockets.

westward10 · Aug 23, 2021

That's a Qwickline board and rcbos are available but you are looking at £70 odd just second hand. The circuit breaker at circuit 4 is also broken.

WoodenSpoon · Aug 23, 2021

westward10 said:
That's a Qwickline board and rcbos are available but you are looking at £70 odd just second hand. The circuit breaker at circuit 4 is also broken.

Yeh cheers I've told him about the broken breaker as well. Im not an electrician but was happy to help him sort the lights if it was a simple job and met current requirements but obviously I'm not allowed to fit new breakers etc so I will advise him to get somebody in.

Shame as at a push I could have just stuck an RCD plug on and plugged it into current socket!

westward10 · Aug 23, 2021

Would recommend they replace the existing consumer unit.

WoodenSpoon · Aug 23, 2021

westward10 said:
Would recommend they replace the existing consumer unit.

Yeh it's pretty old and would make sense.

telectrix · Aug 23, 2021

well past it's use by date. ( a bit like me).

Fender · Aug 23, 2021

Changing the board is probably best.
However, an RCBO can be found as below.

Don't forget, which ever you opt for, any existing neutral/earth faults will suddenly introduce themselves!

RCBO's Products - Willrose Electrical - Discontinued & Obsolete Circuit Breakers

willrose-electrical.co.uk

littlespark · Aug 23, 2021

If you stick the lights on a plug, then the wiring regs don’t apply….

Sounds stupid, but that’s the way it is

WoodenSpoon · Aug 23, 2021

littlespark said:
If you stick the lights on a plug, then the wiring regs don’t apply….

Sounds stupid, but that’s the way it is

Is this true even for outside lighting, with regards to RCD protection?

DPG · Aug 23, 2021

littlespark said:
If you stick the lights on a plug, then the wiring regs don’t apply….

Sounds stupid, but that’s the way it is

To be honest, bearing in mind it's an outside light where it is high enough not to be reached, I would probably say it would be OK on a plug top. But as above, a consumer unit replacement should be high on the list of where they spend their savings.

Tin hat status = securely fitted

pc1966 · Aug 23, 2021

WoodenSpoon said:
Is this true even for outside lighting, with regards to RCD protection?

It is a bit murky.

The BPG #4 guide has a C3 code for no RCD on sockets, but C2 if the sockets are likely to be used with outdoor equipment. However, I am pretty sure they are thinking of extensions leads, etc, being chopped by lawnmowers (a popular way to die in the past) and not out-of-reach lights.

You could always put the lights flex on a RCD plug, Though usually they have zero-volt release for outdoor tools so would need reset after any power cut.

RCD Plug

Protects against electrocution and damage to equipment.

www.toolstation.com

pc1966 · Aug 23, 2021

But as above, a new CU is a really good idea here. Not only will you get all the niceties of RCD protection, you should also get surge protection and any spare parts for less than an arm & leg 2nd hand.

WoodenSpoon · Aug 23, 2021

Cheers all. I will try and convince him to get a new CU. Especially with the price of one rcbo. Maybe I should start collecting RCBO's now with a view to selling them for more in the future as they become harder to get

PIR lights and RCD question

WoodenSpoon

telectrix

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westward10

telectrix

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buzzlightyear

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WoodenSpoon

Attachments

westward10

WoodenSpoon

westward10

WoodenSpoon

telectrix

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Fender

RCBO's Products - Willrose Electrical - Discontinued & Obsolete Circuit Breakers

littlespark

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WoodenSpoon

DPG

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pc1966

RCD Plug

pc1966

WoodenSpoon

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