would a class 2 light fed from a flex off of a hager klik Marshall box need a 2 core and earth flex or would a just a 2 core flex be okay
on an rcbo
on an rcbo
-
Please checkout our new DIY Forum, and any trade that'd like to join and help out, and Contractor Talk Forum.
- Thread starter dokkan1080
- Start date
- Replies 14
- Views 1K
Discuss Class 2 light's in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
The other thread seems to have disappeared
I was arguing that you can in theory as fixed wiring requires a CPC at points while appliances and accessories can be wired in 2-core
Luminaires I would also say the CPC may be brought to a junction in the case of selv downlights and a robus trafo with 2-core lead connected
Other side of the argument is they're 3 and 4 pin plugs and the earth should be brought to luminaire as it may be changed later to a class1 type
I was arguing that you can in theory as fixed wiring requires a CPC at points while appliances and accessories can be wired in 2-core
Luminaires I would also say the CPC may be brought to a junction in the case of selv downlights and a robus trafo with 2-core lead connected
Other side of the argument is they're 3 and 4 pin plugs and the earth should be brought to luminaire as it may be changed later to a class1 type
Nine times out if ten you will get the ready made plug and cord which will be three core to save time. For a fitting which doesn't need three core and has no facility to connect the earth just use another lighting connector, three core to one side two core to the other.
OP
Thats how it would be ideally but is 2 core okay
OP
But with no earth would it be compliant?
I don't see why not.
I wondered where the other thread went….
as I mentioned on the other one, you wouldn’t wire downlights with only two core, you’de take an earth there too, even if not used.
I believe standard BC pendants are a special case, all other luminaries should have an earth in the flex… (IMO)
as I mentioned on the other one, you wouldn’t wire downlights with only two core, you’de take an earth there too, even if not used.
I believe standard BC pendants are a special case, all other luminaries should have an earth in the flex… (IMO)
I know BC pendants are a special case regarding Basic Protection, but can't recall any other exceptions.
I generally agree with you on most things (!) but do wonder about this.
As you can have a 3 pin plug with 2 core flex in it for a class II appliance, and could could potentially connect a class II appliance to an FCU with 2 core flex, I'm not immediately sure why luminaires should be any different.
I encounter this quite a lot with the LED grid ceiling panel panels with a transformer - they have no room to terminate an earth beyond the clamp, or loop in and out. The neatest approach I've found is to use a Quikwire flex connector on the in and out cables to maintain the CPC, and a short 2 core flex to the transformer which is marked class II and the output is SELV. For reasons above and fact it was SELV I reasoned this was ok.
I'd be genuinely interested if anyone's aware of specific regs on this kind of thing.
The only thing different between this and a table lamp with 2 core flex would be the fused plug, I suppose… but then it’s an appliance, covered by it’s own rules.
BTW I've had a nice glass of Oban and a quick scan through the regs.
The closest I can get to anything relevant is the general fault protection section:
411.3.1.1 ... A cpc shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a lampholder having no exposed-conductive parts and suspended from such a point.
"point in wiring" is in section 2 and says "a termination of fixed wiring intended for the connection of current using equipment"
It's not quite an exact fit, but pretty close if the Quickwire is the "point in wiring", and the way downlighters are fitted by a lot of cowboys they end up suspended half the time!
The closest I can get to anything relevant is the general fault protection section:
411.3.1.1 ... A cpc shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a lampholder having no exposed-conductive parts and suspended from such a point.
"point in wiring" is in section 2 and says "a termination of fixed wiring intended for the connection of current using equipment"
It's not quite an exact fit, but pretty close if the Quickwire is the "point in wiring", and the way downlighters are fitted by a lot of cowboys they end up suspended half the time!
Yeah, I know what you mean. I honestly have no idea how to do anything else for something like this though. No chance of safely terminating a 3rd core in there!
![[ElectriciansForums.net] Class 2 light's](https://www.electriciansforums.net/attachments/1629925072243-png.89160/ "[ElectriciansForums.net] Class 2 light's")
(this is more an example of the wiring space than a particular product I would choose to fit btw!)
(this is more an example of the wiring space than a particular product I would choose to fit btw!)
It's something that has cropped up before for me with the LAP cheapo downlights (which actually aren't awful).
https://media.NoLinkingToThis/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/3046V_P&$prodImageMedium$
They have two terminals for L and N, but no provision for earth - so you can be sure that most people installing them will either cut it short or think they should use 2 core...
The 'installation' image even suggests as much
https://media.NoLinkingToThis/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/3046V_A1&$prodImageMedium$
and last time I looked at the instructions for one there was nothing about ensuring any existing earth is linked separately. I used Wago lite boxes for the feed cable with earth, and then short 2 core flex to the light last time I installed any - and the NICEIC assessor had no issues with it.
I think if the quick fit connector has an earth terminal, then 3 core should be run to it, and I'd likely do it anyway to each junction box at least, because the price difference is so slight and there is always the chance of a change of fitting to Class 1 in the future.
Whether that is a strict requirement under the Regs is another matter..
https://media.NoLinkingToThis/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/3046V_P&$prodImageMedium$
They have two terminals for L and N, but no provision for earth - so you can be sure that most people installing them will either cut it short or think they should use 2 core...
The 'installation' image even suggests as much
https://media.NoLinkingToThis/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/3046V_A1&$prodImageMedium$
and last time I looked at the instructions for one there was nothing about ensuring any existing earth is linked separately. I used Wago lite boxes for the feed cable with earth, and then short 2 core flex to the light last time I installed any - and the NICEIC assessor had no issues with it.
I think if the quick fit connector has an earth terminal, then 3 core should be run to it, and I'd likely do it anyway to each junction box at least, because the price difference is so slight and there is always the chance of a change of fitting to Class 1 in the future.
Whether that is a strict requirement under the Regs is another matter..
Something like that seems a.good compromise
Bring the 3-core as close as possible to the accessory if not able to connect
In the example of the transformer you'll have a cable joint with CPC which will drop-down the hole so is present at the accessory in reality
Reply to Class 2 light's in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
Similar Threads
Thanks for your reply.
You are quite right, I’ve taken one down this morning and the cable is twin & earth but the earth has been cut right back...
- Gibshy
- DIY Electrical Advice
- 2
- 423
- Question
Thanks davesparks. Looking at the diagram on the driver that's what I interpreted too, but I heard somewhere that the DALI system doesn't like...
- KevinH
- UK Electrical Forum
- 2
- 475
Of course, showing my age now!
- Mjward
- UK Electrical Forum
- 19
- 665
- Question
I would use the Switch & Load 16A - https://www.quickwire.co.uk/product/switch-load-16a/
Designed to do the same thing as the ceiling rose in...
- JagSingh
- UK Electrical Forum
- 5
- 656
- Question
It may still be wrong.
Diagram shows l1 and l2 on different phases.
If you put them on the same phase, you could overload the neutral cable...
- man2964
- Electrical Appliances Forum
- 6
- 499
OFFICIAL SPONSORS
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
YOUR Unread Posts
-
What pets do you have, and what pets have you had?June last year I mentioned on this thread that we had lost one of our two rabbits…. Number two...- Latest: littlespark
-
2 x t&e for 3 phase isolatorYes both are definitely 6mm t&e, one of them has a darker grey outer insulation than the other...
- Latest: kev.k
-
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.