How to replace mr16 with led gu10?

Richard Daniels · Sep 16, 2021

Hi there, I'm a competent DIYer that has done lots of with lighting over the years but have just moved into a house packed full of mr16 halogens and they seriously offend me.

After a fair amount of reading I gather it is fairly straight forward to replace these with Gu10 leds.

Current setup pics attached but I gather I need to remove the green transformer and connect my new 240v downlight straight to the mains connection?

Thinking of using something simple like this:

Enlite EN-DE8/40 LED Dimmable 8w IP65 Fire Rate Downlight 4k cool Whi.

Buy online the cheapest Enlite EN-DE8/40 LED Dimmable 8w IP65 Fire Rate Downlight 4k cool White best price

www.edwardes.co.uk

Last question - is it better to use integrated downlight or ones with replaceable bulbs?

Thanks in advance

telectrix · Sep 16, 2021

you're correct in that you remove the transformers and connect the 240V cables (that fed them) direct into the new fittings. most integrated fittings allow for 2 x T/E cables into the driver terminals. i use the JCC V50 ones. screwless terminals and selectable colour temp.wwarm white or cool white. using anintegrated fitting stops some donut retro fitting halogens.

brianmoooore · Sep 16, 2021

Integrated downlights have several advantages over those with replaceable lamps, but one very important disadvantage - if an integrated type fails after a period of time, you may find it is no longer available, and have the choice of having one fitting that doesn't match the others, or replacing the lot at considerable expense.
IF the connection box on your existing MR16 lamps is suitable for 230 volts AC, and earthing requirements can be met, which will require electrical knowledge to decide, it is often possible to replace the MR16 lamp holders with GU10 types.

HappyHippyDad · Sep 17, 2021

Richard Daniels said:
Hi there, I'm a competent DIYer that has done lots of with lighting over the years but have just moved into a house packed full of mr16 halogens and they seriously offend me.

After a fair amount of reading I gather it is fairly straight forward to replace these with Gu10 leds.

Current setup pics attached but I gather I need to remove the green transformer and connect my new 240v downlight straight to the mains connection?

Thinking of using something simple like this:

Enlite EN-DE8/40 LED Dimmable 8w IP65 Fire Rate Downlight 4k cool Whi.

Buy online the cheapest Enlite EN-DE8/40 LED Dimmable 8w IP65 Fire Rate Downlight 4k cool White best price

www.edwardes.co.uk

Last question - is it better to use integrated downlight or ones with replaceable bulbs?

Thanks in advance

Its not as simple as just changing them over Richard.
The existing lights are Extra Low Voltage (ELV) meaning they will not have an earth connected to them. Your new mains powered GU10's may well need an earth. You will need to see if the cable you are about to use for each light has an earth cable with it. Plus, you have to know that this earth cable has continuity back to the consumer unit, otherwise it will just be a random cable that is not doing it's job.

Richard Daniels · Sep 17, 2021

HappyHippyDad said:
Its not as simple as just changing them over Richard.
The existing lights are Extra Low Voltage (ELV) meaning they will not have an earth connected to them. Your new mains powered GU10's may well need an earth. You will need to see if the cable you are about to use for each light has an earth cable with it. Plus, you have to know that this earth cable has continuity back to the consumer unit, otherwise it will just be a random cable that is not doing it's job.

Thanks happyhippydad.

Just had a look to see if earthed and have the current setup - pic attached.

What would you recommend?

SJD · Sep 17, 2021

That earth twisting is truly wonderful. NOT.

The cables are in new colours, so not that old, you'd have thought whoever did that would have known it is no longer 'good practice'!

Ideally put the 4-cable connections into a maintenance-free junction box e.g. Wagobox / Wago connectors. And the earthing really does need testing to check actually connected to earth. Where there are just two cables, many modern downlights can be used as the connection (e.g. Aurora E8, E5).

Richard Daniels · Sep 17, 2021

SJD said:
That earth twisting is truly wonderful. NOT.

The cables are in new colours, so not that old, you'd have thought whoever did that would have known it is no longer 'good practice'!

Ideally put the 4-cable connections into a maintenance-free junction box e.g. Wagobox / Wago connectors. And the earthing really does need testing to check actually connected to earth. Where there are just two cables, many modern downlights can be used as the connection (e.g. Aurora E8, E5).

Thanks SJD.

I can test the earth, not a problem.

Just a thought though, would it be safer and easier to just buy a load of class 2 downlights? And just insulate the earths in the void?

HappyHippyDad · Sep 17, 2021

Richard Daniels said:
Thanks SJD.

I can test the earth, not a problem.

Just a thought though, would it be safer and easier to just buy a load of class 2 downlights? And just insulate the earths in the void?

Hi Richard,
Can I ask how you intend to test the earth? What test will you do?

I realise it may sound a bit of a cop out, but I don't feel comfortable giving advice to DIYers, and my advice is to get an electrician to do it as they will be able to carry out all the required tests. Ze, Zs, IR, RCD etc etc and issue you with the required certificate.

I'm sure you are a competent DIYer and I'm trying to word this so as not to cause offense, but your only real aim is to 'make the new light work'. To start giving advice on all the testing needed would just get too complicated, hence needing an electrician. Even if you go for class 2 lights you are still adding a piece of cable that may well not be earthed, and may not have 30mA RCD (tested to see if working) protection which will be required

Good luck with what ever you decide Richard.

Richard Daniels · Sep 17, 2021

HappyHippyDad said:
Hi Richard,
Can I ask how you intend to test the earth? What test will you do?

I realise it may sound a bit of a cop out, but I don't feel comfortable giving advice to DIYers, and my advice is to get an electrician to do it as they will be able to carry out all the required tests. Ze, Zs, IR, RCD etc etc and issue you with the required certificate.

I'm sure you are a competent DIYer and I'm trying to word this so as not to cause offense, but your only real aim is to 'make the new light work'. To start giving advice on all the testing needed would just get too complicated, hence needing an electrician. Even if you go for class 2 lights you are still adding a piece of cable that may well not be earthed, and may not have 30mA RCD (tested to see if working) protection which will be required

Good luck with what ever you decide Richard.

Thanks for the message and no offense taken, this is why I posted on this forum as want to know everything (warts and all).

So I ran a basic test using a voltage meter, got a reading of 236 on the live and neutral and then the same on the live and earth. Is this too basic a test?

Interestingly I has some rooms where I got a reading of 236 and other where I didn't of the live and earth.

Can I go with class 1 units for all those with a reading on the earth and class 2 for all those without a reading on the earth?

If my logic or testing it too simple and not sufficient please let me know.

littlespark · Sep 17, 2021

Oooh... those photos with the round brown joint boxes are a special type of wrong!

ipf · Sep 17, 2021

littlespark said:
Oooh... those photos with the round brown joint boxes are a special type of wrong!

Strung up like sausages. Someone with experience needed, not trained as a butcher, I fear.

littlespark · Sep 17, 2021

Mmmmm... sausages.... Square please, with black pudding, fried egg... on a roll

michaelw6 · Sep 17, 2021

Richard Daniels said:
Thanks happyhippydad.

Just had a look to see if earthed and have the current setup - pic attached.

What would you recommend?

the insulation should not be exposed out of the JB. just re-terminate and put the earth in the JB terminal.
I'm unsure of your earth readings they don't sound correct are you using just a simple bog-standard multimeter? you should be getting 0.?? or 1.?? readings. but as advised above You could have a few issues here you should get in an approved electrician really. Yes, it can be as simple as just swapping out the gu10 lamp holders but in my experience, it's always the easy job that turns into an Absolute Nightmare.
Good luck

DefyG · Sep 18, 2021

Richard Daniels said:
Interestingly I has some rooms where I got a reading of 236 and other where I didn't of the live and earth.

That immediately implies you don't have continuity on the cpc's if not getting voltage reading in some rooms.

DefyG · Sep 18, 2021

Richard Daniels said:
Just a thought though, would it be safer and easier to just buy a load of class 2 downlights? And just insulate the earths in the void?

Fine, but the earths (cpc's) should be continuous and enclosed in a proprietary junction box, with no other insulation showing.

How to replace mr16 with led gu10?

Richard Daniels

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