EICR Certs - NICEIC registration

landlord · Sep 21, 2021

Hi,
Private landlord here.
Like seemingly a lot of people. I thought electricians had to be registered with NICEIC or NAPIT in order to carry out an EICR test on a property. Except actually I've just learned they dont actually have to be. (thats correct right?).

However, if they then say the property is not up to standard and needs some bits of work doing on the electrics in order to get the cert, do they then have to be registered with one of the bodies in order to carry out the work?

If they don't have to be registered with any of these bodies, I have read something about being a "competent person". What does this mean, and is there any way I can check their status / check they have passed whatever qualifications they need to have done?
Thank

landlord · Sep 21, 2021

Thanks hugely for all the info from everyone. I have a call with the letting agent tomorrow to discuss, but wanted to go in with as much knowledge as possible, I certainly now feel much better placed. There are a few other delicate political hurdles to overcome, which I wont detail on here, so I have to tread lightly, but thats why I feel much more confident now I know the exact state of play.

I have not seen the full report, just the quote for works, which is admittedly fairly detailed. I suppose its possible the electrician is registered, and hasnt put their NIC / NAPIT number on the quote. But given that they have put their company name, companies house number, address, and the electricians name - all of which are showing a blank on searches it doesnt look great.

My hope is the agent will just agree to start from scratch with a new (registered) electrician, but I need to see what is said tomorrow. If it doesnt get quickly resolved, I will see if I can get hold of the full report to ask for further advice.

pc1966 · Sep 21, 2021

landlord said:
If it doesnt get quickly resolved, I will see if I can get hold of the full report to ask for further advice.

I would say your starting point for any decision should always be the full report.

Only then can you (or any one advising you) see why certain things are being recommended as corrective action. If they are reluctant to provide it I would be very concerned about the honesty/integrity.

It is not about nit-picking (as most reports will have something that is not quite 100%), really about seeing the key issues and judgment for any major work. Quite possibly something moderately expensive like a new CU (consumer unit = distrabution board = fuse box) really is the best option.

Markyd · Sep 21, 2021

loz2754 said:
Maybe discuss with the agent why they are using a non registered tradesperson? There may be some good reason, if the agent has a history with them and trusts their judgement.
Trust and competency are difficult to quantify, hence the reason for the guidance for landlords to use one of the Competent Person Schemes when looking for an EICR.

Good reason is the Agent is getting a backhander for every EICR the sparks is doing

Deleted account · Sep 22, 2021

Markyd said:
Good reason is the Agent is getting a backhander for every EICR the sparks is doing

Cynical.

Deleted account · Sep 22, 2021

My parents got an EICR done for a rental they have. I live 400 miles away so was not able to do it myself.

the report was ok ish, but I totally disagreed with most of the coding. Too many C2s.
despite this I agreed that all the C2s whether correct or not should be rectified. The quote for rectification was reasonable so dispite me not agreeing I told my parents to go ahead and get the work done.

it is a rental and you are responsible for the safety of your tennants. Just get it done.

I code correctly even if I do not agree with what code they should be. I follow guidance and regs, the company that did my parents did not follow guidance and regs so coded what they though it should be.
I have to admit that I also think the code they gave should be what they stated even if they are nor following guidance and regs.

my personal opinion is lighting without rcd protection should be C2, but under current guidance and regs it is C3.

pc1966 · Sep 22, 2021

Paignton pete said:
my personal opinion is lighting without rcd protection should be C2, but under current guidance and regs it is C3.

I would say the BPG#4 guidance seems quite good. but it always comes down to a judgment call on the risks involved.

So I would say C3 for no RCD on indoor lights generally (assuming sound CPC, etc) as you rarely handle the related equipment (less so today with LED lamps lasting an order of magnitude longer than filament lamps). Even metal switch plates, the obvious case, are not something you can grasp under shock conditions and it still needs a double fault to present such a risk (CPC open then fault to metalwork).

But you can easily find examples such as outdoor lights and light switches where the presence of water increases the risk of shock, or low height 'artistic' lighting metalwork that is easily grasped close to other conductive objects, etc, that change the risk greatly and then C2 is reasonable.

brianmoooore · Sep 22, 2021

Bear in mind that registration with a scheme, such as NAPIT or NICEIC is absolutely no guarantee of competency.

Markyd · Sep 22, 2021

brianmoooore said:
Bear in mind that registration with a scheme, such as NAPIT or NICEIC is absolutely no guarantee of competency.

These according to the NICEIC registered sparky who done the Eicr are 60898 type B MCB's And the RCD is 30ma and has a trip time of 28ms x1 and 19ms x5

[ElectriciansForums.net] EICR Certs - NICEIC registration

Markyd · Sep 23, 2021

Markyd said:
These according to the NICEIC registered sparky who done the Eicr are 60898 type B MCB's And the RCD is 30ma and has a trip time of 28ms x1 and 19ms x5View attachment 90336

And yes i have tried to report him but do you think the NICEIC are at all bothered...not a bit

baldelectrician · Sep 23, 2021

landlord said:
Hi,
Private landlord here.
Like seemingly a lot of people. I thought electricians had to be registered with NICEIC or NAPIT in order to carry out an EICR test on a property. Except actually I've just learned they dont actually have to be. (thats correct right?).

However, if they then say the property is not up to standard and needs some bits of work doing on the electrics in order to get the cert, do they then have to be registered with one of the bodies in order to carry out the work?

If they don't have to be registered with any of these bodies, I have read something about being a "competent person". What does this mean, and is there any way I can check their status / check they have passed whatever qualifications they need to have done?
Thank

I would suggest a registered electrical contractor.

If your agent are not using a company from the competent person scheme you have almost no come back (not that you have tons on an EICR)

This sounds like the standard agent- calls up 10 sparks and asks how much, does not care about how good or safe.

Remember the agent are meant to be acting in your interest.

Ask them how they have checked the qualifications, insurance etc of the contractor they use?

To pin it down- I would suggest a NICIEC / ECA full scope electrical contractor who is time served (and not just short course trained), preferably a small / family firm who has apprentices (the contractors with apprentices are showing commitment to future training)

Markyd · Sep 23, 2021

baldelectrician said:
I would suggest a registered electrical contractor.

If your agent are not using a company from the competent person scheme you have almost no come back (not that you have tons on an EICR)

This sounds like the standard agent- calls up 10 sparks and asks how much, does not care about how good or safe.

Remember the agent are meant to be acting in your interest.

Ask them how they have checked the qualifications, insurance etc of the contractor they use?

To pin it down- I would suggest a NICIEC / ECA full scope electrical contractor who is time served (and not just short course trained), preferably a small / family firm who has apprentices (the contractors with apprentices are showing commitment to future training)

And i wouldnt recommend a NICEIC registered electrician after what i saw and the fact they are not interested in following it up

brianmoooore · Sep 23, 2021

Markyd said:
And i wouldnt recommend a NICEIC registered electrician after what i saw and the fact they are not interested in following it up

And if you go for a NAPIT one, you'll be up against their Codebreakers book and its deviations from BPG4.

Grant1987 · Sep 24, 2021

brianmoooore said:
And if you go for a NAPIT one, you'll be up against their Codebreakers book and its deviations from BPG4.

It seems to me that the landlord is looking to go against the electrician who has recommended the upgrades on his property and come on here to give himself some clout based on our replies. It’s a fine line and I’ll always back my fellow sparks unless the work is non compliant to our blue bible. I don’t like homeowners seeking to use our info to go against a fellow spark and only giving half the story so my advice is to be aware of the person asking the questions

pc1966 · Sep 24, 2021

Grant1987 said:
It seems to me that the landlord is looking to go against the electrician who has recommended the upgrades on his property and come on here to give himself some clout based on our replies. It’s a fine line and I’ll always back my fellow sparks unless the work is non compliant to our blue bible. I don’t like homeowners seeking to use our info to go against a fellow spark and only giving half the story so my advice is to be aware of the person asking the questions

That is not how I read it.

Yes, he has been told that work needs done, but the first question from the OP was really about membership of a competent persons scheme being a requirement, as the contractor used by their agent did not seem to be registered. To me that is simple and perfectly valid point to ask, though the answer is complicated and the thread drifted off in to the likes of NAPIT versus BPG#4 guidance, etc.

Also another aspect of this is the OP apparently has not been given the EICR report, but simply told the work is needed. To me that is unacceptable (as well as raising a bit of suspicion when coupled with the apparently non-registered contractor). If your agent has commissioned an EICR you should get the full report as well as any recommendation/costings for corrective work.

Unless we see this EICR we have no idea. As I have mentioned in previous posts it could well be that the EICR is reasonable and all of the work proposed is required, but without seeing the report and maybe some photos of the points raised nobody can say one way or another.

UNG · Sep 24, 2021

Markyd said:
And yes i have tried to report him but do you think the NICEIC are at all bothered...not a bit

Well if the NICEIC are not interested elevate it to UKAS and their complaints procedure Complaints, Feedback and Appeals - UKAS - https://www.ukas.com/customer-area/complaints-feedback-and-appeals/

Grant1987 said:
It seems to me that the landlord is looking to go against the electrician who has recommended the upgrades on his property and come on here to give himself some clout based on our replies. It’s a fine line and I’ll always back my fellow sparks unless the work is non compliant to our blue bible. I don’t like homeowners seeking to use our info to go against a fellow spark and only giving half the story so my advice is to be aware of the person asking the questio

The OP only appeared to be questioning the registration status of an electrician to be able carry out EICR's / remedial works