Are lorry drivers (or lack of) having an effect on any of your regular supplies?

The EU should definitely be able to handle this issue better than the UK, but it remains heavily reliant on cheap labour from poorer member states. Unless the population of those poorer member states are content to continue providing cheap labour to their wealthy neighbours, then the EU has a considerable problem coming in the future.

What the UK is experiencing is a long overdue correction of its labour market, which has been seriously compounded by the unforeseen effects of a pandemic and the unprecidented measures taken to minimise the immediate economic impact of that pandemic.

Ultimately we are where we are. Things could be better and they could also be a whole lot worse. I'd expected a much greater immediate impact after Brexit, so find myself generally content with how matters are progressing. There'll be more bumps in the future, just as there would have been if we'd remained a member of the EU.

Here's an interesting perspective from 2018, which addressed the issue of driver shortages in the UK and EU at that time, but obviously its predictions didn't take account of Covid...

FatAlan said:

Not sure where you get spare drivers from? 400k drivers short divided by 27 is slightly less than 100k. They’re still short of drivers but nowhere near as much as the UK.

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I think you need to recheck your maths if they need 400k drivers then 400,000 / 27 = 14,815 rounding it up so how do you get slightly less than 100k

The only reason the UK is short of drivers is because the employers hae been treating them as a low value commodity for many years, I know quite a few people who have a class 1 HGV licence who stopped driving trucks because employers kept on dropping the rates even the ADR rates went down to as little as 10p / hr extra for hauling hazardous goods

Dig deeper for your news and facts

nicebutdim said:

Here's an interesting perspective from 2018, which addressed the issue of driver shortages in the UK and EU at that time, but obviously its predictions didn't take account of Covid...

Truck driver shortage crisis now spreading across the whole of Europe

European road transport firms are racing towards a driver shortage crisis of 150,000 unfilled jobs, according to new research from Transport Intelligence.

www.bifa.org

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As early as 2008 they were concerned about a driver shortage, at the time the driver CPC was being introduced the average age of a HGV driver was 56 just over 10 years on that is now 55 - 57 depending on what sources you look at

nicebutdim said:

The EU should definitely be able to handle this issue better than the UK, but it remains heavily reliant on cheap labour from poorer member states. Unless the population of those poorer member states are content to continue providing cheap labour to their wealthy neighbours, then the EU has a considerable problem coming in the future.

What the UK is experiencing is a long overdue correction of its labour market, which has been seriously compounded by the unforeseen effects of a pandemic and the unprecidented measures taken to minimise the immediate economic impact of that pandemic.

Ultimately we are where we are. Things could be better and they could also be a whole lot worse. I'd expected a much greater immediate impact after Brexit, so find myself generally content with how matters are progressing. There'll be more bumps in the future, just as there would have been if we'd remained a member of the EU.

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And that is part of the cause, cheap drivers have depressed the rates in the UK and driven too many drivers away from the industry

FatAlan said:

So in the EU they are having supply issues and panic buying at fuel pumps? Exactly the same issues as here.

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You seem to only read the information that fits in with your opinions
, as far as I can see anyway.

nicebutdim said:

The EU should definitely be able to handle this issue better than the UK, but it remains heavily reliant on cheap labour from poorer member states. Unless the population of those poorer member states are content to continue providing cheap labour to their wealthy neighbours, then the EU has a considerable problem coming in the future.

What the UK is experiencing is a long overdue correction of its labour market, which has been seriously compounded by the unforeseen effects of a pandemic and the unprecidented measures taken to minimise the immediate economic impact of that pandemic.

Ultimately we are where we are. Things could be better and they could also be a whole lot worse. I'd expected a much greater immediate impact after Brexit, so find myself generally content with how matters are progressing. There'll be more bumps in the future, just as there would have been if we'd remained a member of the EU.

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I think the pandemic has acted like a catalyst for the effects of brexit, certainly in respect of labour. Not too sure about cheap labour though. A lot of the Eastern European lads that went back are probably staying put now due to levelling up in Europe and them being able to earn more back home. Certainly the skilled trades guys may be difficult to get back. They were on good standard rates and I suspect were very switched on and working to a plan in respect of hard graft for a few years before returning home.Will be interesting to see what happens here with wages. Public sector is in dire straights already with 10 years of austerity and pay freezes. The private sector will have to pay more for labour which may cause a further staff shortage in public sector. A 23 year old police officer may well be thinking about getting a grant to train as an HGV driver, a couple of months training and double the wages.

Increasing the number of hgv drivers is not an overnight solution.
As I said before, my dad was a driver, from years ago… Training includes having 2 years experience driving a rigid body before going for an articulated.

As for the army helping out…. I heard that since they took over driving ambulances over in Glasgow they’ve managed to crash 2 so far.

littlespark said:

Increasing the number of hgv drivers is not an overnight solution.
As I said before, my dad was a driver, from years ago… Training includes having 2 years experience driving a rigid body before going for an articulated.

As for the army helping out…. I heard that since they took over driving ambulances over in Glasgow they’ve managed to crash 2 so far.

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Don't think that's correct - a mate of mine trained to be an HGV driver last year and went straight on to artics.

FatAlan said:

I think the pandemic has acted like a catalyst for the effects of brexit, certainly in respect of labour. Not too sure about cheap labour though. A lot of the Eastern European lads that went back are probably staying put now due to levelling up in Europe and them being able to earn more back home. Certainly the skilled trades guys may be difficult to get back. They were on good standard rates and I suspect were very switched on and working to a plan in respect of hard graft for a few years before returning home.Will be interesting to see what happens here with wages. Public sector is in dire straights already with 10 years of austerity and pay freezes. The private sector will have to pay more for labour which may cause a further staff shortage in public sector. A 23 year old police officer may well be thinking about getting a grant to train as an HGV driver, a couple of months training and double the wages.

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This rather oversimplifies the issue.

Most Eastern Europeans who settled in the UK have remained here and have the same opportunities as everyone else on these islands, while many of those who came for seasonal or temporary work will have returned home or sought work in other parts of the EU. Many of the former have raised families for whom the UK is the only home they've ever known.

The issue of cheap labour became quite comical during the great Brexit debate of 2016-2020 as opponents of Brexit were adament that no immigrants were employed on the basis of low priced labour, yet went on to lament the increasing cost of labour as short term workers left the UK - basically undermining their own prior arguments.

I also don't agree about Public sector wages. It is without doubt that pay freezes will certainly have been felt by these workers and will have problems, but this was more a levelling of the playing field as Public Sector workers had previously enjoyed much better average earnings than their Private Sector counterparts - they still enjoy better benefits and pensions. The main issue with the UK Public Sector is not with wages for the average employee, though, but with the sheer number of people employed in Public Sector roles and the overall burden on our economy. Many in the Public Sector are vital to the functioning of our society, but there have been a plethora of unnecessary management positions and new roles created, over the last number of decades, that are totally unnecessary. As a former policeman, you'll be aware of how much bureaucracy there is impeding those at the coal face.

As for the pandemic? Brexit was never going to be a walk in the park, but the last 18 months have thrown up many challenges around the globe, but in the UK they are often used as arguments against leaving the EU. At this stage it is long since time that people accepted what the electorate voted for, pulled themselves out of the past and set about doing something positive for the next generations.

FatAlan said:

So what benefits do we have due to Brexit? I hear there’s a shortage of child minders now and the government is looking to relax vetting your get more women back to work. What price the safety of your child? Fruit rotting in fields, no staff in slaughter houses so farmers destroying livestock. Fishing industry being bailed out by government £300m a year. Haven’t seen any benefits yet.

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We spent over 40 years getting more and more intertwined with the political club called the EU... we won't be getting totally out of it in 10 months !! It will several years for the full benefits to be realised. At present most of the world is adjusting to life after the Covid pandemic... which includes the UK as well as the EU. Many of the problems that you see are due to this and NOT Brexit, but I understand that you won't be able to see that.

Can I suggest that you look at the whole question of the benefits of leaving the EU in about 5 years time... after the labour market has settled down... the effects of Covid will be a distant memory and when a few more countries will have left the EU ??

Zerax said:

Can I suggest that you look at the whole question of the benefits of leaving the EU in about 5 years time... after the labour market has settled down... the effects of Covid will be a distant memory and when a few more countries will have left the EU ??

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Hopefully this never happens. While I was (and remain) a strong advocate of Brexit, I honestly believe the EU is essential for the continued functioning of mainland Europe.

littlespark said:

Increasing the number of hgv drivers is not an overnight solution.
As I said before, my dad was a driver, from years ago… Training includes having 2 years experience driving a rigid body before going for an articulated.

As for the army helping out…. I heard that since they took over driving ambulances over in Glasgow they’ve managed to crash 2 so far.

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Army, police, fire & ambulance are all good at crashing their vehicles whether helping each other out or not.

Late 80,s ambulance dispute. Army worked with police out of Brentford Police Station in West London. One of the army girls is as driving a big army armoured ambulance. Car pulled out from a side turning in front of her and she just drove over the front of the car flattening the bonnet. We also had a big old American estate style ambulance. That was promptly renamed Ecto 1. ?

FatAlan said:

So what benefits do we have due to Brexit? I hear there’s a shortage of child minders now and the government is looking to relax vetting your get more women back to work. What price the safety of your child? Fruit rotting in fields, no staff in slaughter houses so farmers destroying livestock. Fishing industry being bailed out by government £300m a year. Haven’t seen any benefits yet.

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What about wages going up? Prime example being HGV drivers finally getting some appreciation.

Too many people doing ‘nothing jobs’ in this country where nothing is produced. When you really boil it down most of these people are a drain in a crisis