Bad positioning or too fussy?

sehs527 · Dec 24, 2021

I'm a homeowner and looking for some advice. We have taken on a house renovation and had an electrician do a rewire. The second fix has just been done with socket faces now on etc. We've spent a little extra on faceplates but I'm not happy with the positioning with some of the sockets/switches. Thankfully most are ok but there are a few grouped together that are all spaced differently and it looks messy (pictured on studded walls): The fan switches are different heights (one I can reach the other I can't), they're different distances away from the door way/architrave.

I asked the electrician about it and understandably it's hard to be accurate during the first fix and I guess stud wall frames can affect positioning. Just wondering what you guys think?

brianmoooore · Dec 24, 2021

It looks like he made a poor job of estimating where the centre of that narrow piece of wall would be after it was plastered and the door trim in place. Sort of thing that comes with experience.
Fan switches are for maintenance only, and are exactly where I would have placed them. Both look the same height to me.

Dustydazzler · Dec 24, 2021

A little untidy and as above probably got his gestimated positons just a bit off

It would not take long to move the socket over a bit and make good , but is it really worth the hassle ?

Des 56 · Dec 24, 2021

We are all good at blowing our own trumpet and with many years of experience can throw a critical eye at most insallations
We could also know very well what a good and aesthetically pleasing installation should entail

Throwing my critical eye ate the installation I have come to 2 conclusions
Number 1 is unless you take care to get accessories sited well the installation can look a little amateurish
No 2 is unless you see various installation standard its difficult for that person to know good from bad, that includes electricians as well as others

If I were to site boxes for a switch on a stud wall, I generally use 5 inches from the start of the frame for my distance,( estimate the door lining width when no frame is fitted)
Any socket below would start at exact same distance be it a single or double

I have a habit (good or bad) of looking at items for level spacing and symmetry
In my own installations I make sure that trait is strictly followed and items are level spaced uniformly and symmetrical
Having stated the above, the photos are not anything unique to the the electrical industry

brianmoooore · Dec 24, 2021

There might also be more to this than we, or the OP, knows. It's not unknown for a chippy to revisit and move or widen his door aperture slightly, after first fix of the electrics has been completed.

ferg · Dec 24, 2021

Stud walls can have timbers in all sorts of daft places, making it impossible to get ideal spacings without hacking into the stud work.

Often it's a compromise.

brianmoooore · Dec 24, 2021

If there's a stud in the way, in a place where the correct positioning is important, such as the narrow wall in question, I either make sure the chippy doesn't put it there in the first place, or cut in a couple of trimmers, above and below, and remove the offending piece of stud.

timhoward · Dec 24, 2021

He may have also not anticipated the style of architrave, and if there have been another inch of plaster between socket and frame it would instantly look better. I've seen a heck of a lot worse and from the surface you can't see what the other trades did to scupper the job!
Why not simply say that it's bothering you and can he can move the socket over a bit? Worst case, swapping to a single would look better if there's something in the way.

UNG · Dec 24, 2021

brianmoooore said:
If there's a stud in the way, in a place where the correct positioning is important, such as the narrow wall in question, I either make sure the chippy doesn't put it there in the first place, or cut in a couple of trimmers, above and below, and remove the offending piece of stud.

Interested to know how you do that if the wall is already boarded and skimmed

Julie. · Dec 24, 2021

I think the answer to the op is yes!

If you specified where they were to be ie sockets halfway between door and corner, light switches 8" from doorframe etc then it is bad positioning.

If it was a more generic as in to the right of the door frame, etc, then you can't really complain, and it is a bit fussy.

In saying that, it looks like they just put the back boxes alongside wherever the joists were (wouldn't be surprised if they were just screwed into the joist at the side/top/ or bottom) which I would consider somewhat lazy and rough.

Personally, I (and I suspect most on here) would try to be consistent, and try to place fittings in aesthetically pleasing positions.

brianmoooore · Dec 24, 2021

UNG said:
Interested to know how you do that if the wall is already boarded and skimmed

I generally first fix before either, as I expect most others do.

telectrix · Dec 24, 2021

and consider if the dry wall fitters had cut the holes. some would be in the next county, let alone in line.

UNG · Dec 24, 2021

brianmoooore said:
I generally first fix before either, as I expect most others do.

But it is not always possible in an existing wall, although I suppose you just chop the plasterboard off the studs and leave it for someone else to sort out at their cost

mainline · Jun 21, 2022

Anyone else use these.

Electrical Socket Back Box Template With Vertical And Horizontal Spirit Levels | eBay

INTEGRATED SPIRIT LEVELS - You will appreciate the ease of positioning back boxes due to the integrated spirit levels. Two - horizontal and vertical - levels will enable you to perfectly position socket boxes.

www.ebay.co.uk

JBW175 · Jun 21, 2022

mainline said:
Anyone else use these.

Electrical Socket Back Box Template With Vertical And Horizontal Spirit Levels | eBay

INTEGRATED SPIRIT LEVELS - You will appreciate the ease of positioning back boxes due to the integrated spirit levels. Two - horizontal and vertical - levels will enable you to perfectly position socket boxes.

www.ebay.co.uk

Nah, they don’t look that great to be fair.

I normally use my laser level, then mark up and ask the client if they’re happy with the positions before I start chopping out.

mainline · Jun 21, 2022

JBW175 said:
Nah, they don’t look that great to be fair.

You don't leave them on the wall

nicebutdim · Jun 21, 2022

mainline said:
Anyone else use these.

Electrical Socket Back Box Template With Vertical And Horizontal Spirit Levels | eBay

INTEGRATED SPIRIT LEVELS - You will appreciate the ease of positioning back boxes due to the integrated spirit levels. Two - horizontal and vertical - levels will enable you to perfectly position socket boxes.

www.ebay.co.uk

Can't see what it would bring to the party.

mainline · Jun 21, 2022

nicebutdim said:
Can't see what it would bring to the party.

They do save a bit of time, especially when used in conjunction with a laser level.

But each to their own

SparkySy · Jun 21, 2022

Yes I use a draper one that does both single and twin it's not as big as the one you linked to, and it is very handy especially if used with a laser. Good in big kitchens ect, then just fly round with the multi cutter! Template even has the center marked.
Perfect size for dry line boxes and metal KO boxes.

like this. Didn't pay that much for it though!
Sy

Draper 63955 Electrical Socket Back Box Template Cutter Level 798256149504 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Draper 63955 Electrical Socket Back Box Template Cutter Level at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

mainline · Jun 21, 2022

SparkySy said:
Yes I use a draper one that does both single and twin it's not as big as the one you linked to, and it is very handy especially if used with a laser. Good in big kitchens ect, then just fly round with the multi cutter! Template even has the center marked.
Perfect size for dry line boxes and metal KO boxes.

like this. Didn't pay that much for it though!
Sy

Draper 63955 Electrical Socket Back Box Template Cutter Level 798256149504 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Draper 63955 Electrical Socket Back Box Template Cutter Level at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

I have that one as well, but find having a vertical level is sometimes handy

nicebutdim · Jun 21, 2022

mainline said:
They do save a bit of time, especially when used in conjunction with a laser level.

But each to their own

Surely running a pencil around a box is just as quick, especially when used in conjunction with a laser level?

One box with torpedo level.

Multiple boxes with laser level.

Genuinely curious what the benefit actual benefit there is?

mainline · Jun 21, 2022

nicebutdim said:
Surely running a pencil around a box is just as quick, especially when used in conjunction with a laser level?

One box with torpedo level.

Multiple boxes with laser level.

Genuinely curious what the benefit actual benefit there is?

I found torpedo type levels, especially the red laser type, are pretty useless on a long wall, self levelling green are a different kettle of fish.

The draper one has a height set, so you can be sure that all heights from the worktop will be the same.

When doing a single isolator switch next to a double socket for instance, you know the gap between them will be the same, much quicker and accurate to mark.

Also, you don't have to carry a level, and a pair of back boxs just the tool and a pencil.

nicebutdim · Jun 21, 2022

mainline said:
I found torpedo type levels, especially the red laser type, are pretty useless on a long wall, self levelling green are a different kettle of fish.

The draper one has a height set, so you can be sure that all heights from the worktop will be the same.

When doing a single isolator switch next to a double socket for instance, you know the gap between them will be the same, much quicker and accurate to mark.

Also, you don't have to carry a level, and a pair of back boxs just the tool and a pencil.

Well it's fairly apparent how they work, but I questioned what real benefit they provide. If you're fitting a single box, it's unlikely you'll bother setting up a laser - yes this template has an integrated level, but who doesn't have a small level to hand in their toolbox/bag?

If you're marking out multiple boxes, and setting up a laser line, I don't see the benefit over a box positioned along that line.

Spacing between boxes is no great hardship and the usual methods of measuring allow spacing to be set at any distance of your pleasing, rather than a single, pre-determined distance.

Would you often find yourself marking out a kitchen with only this template and a pencil to hand? I suspect it's more than likely you'll have at least a small level and tape measure to hand at that stage in a job.

Maybe I'm missing something here as my main concern when marking out boxes is ensuring they're exactly where a drawing indicates they should be.

mainline · Jun 21, 2022

nicebutdim said:
Well it's fairly apparent how they work, but I questioned what real benefit they provide. If you're fitting a single box, it's unlikely you'll bother setting up a laser - yes this template has an integrated level, but who doesn't have a small level to hand in their toolbox/bag?

If you're marking out multiple boxes, and setting up a laser line, I don't see the benefit over a box positioned along that line.

Spacing between boxes is no great hardship and the usual methods of measuring allow spacing to be set at any distance of your pleasing, rather than a single, pre-determined distance.

Would you often find yourself marking out a kitchen with only this template and a pencil to hand? I suspect it's more than likely you'll have at least a small level and tape measure to hand at that stage in a job.

Maybe I'm missing something here as my main concern when marking out boxes is ensuring they're exactly where a drawing indicates they should be.

All I can say is you carry on doing it your way like I did for years without using one, i, ll join the 1000s of people who bought one.

nicebutdim · Jun 21, 2022

mainline said:
All I can say is you carry on doing it your way like I did for years without using one, i, ll join the 1000s of people who bought one.

That's fair enough, but I asked what the benefits were and you pointed out that it saves you having tools in your bag that will already be in your bag for numerous other reasons.

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't use these templates, but don't see any real benefit in doing so.