Wiring wall lights, which is live and neutral?

telectrix said:

so after sleeving or taping the twisted earths, put the single cable in 1 light terminal, and the loop with the bit of insulation missing in the other. then if the new fitting is classI (metal with an earth terminal, connect the twisted earths to that).
1. it works..... hooray
2. it doesn't work........ aaaah shyte
3. it goes bang........ call in a sparks.

Click to expand...

Surprised to see a post like this from a esteemed professional! As I've posted on here before, we install electrics to fail, not just to work. Anyone, slightly above the level of idiot, can make electrics 'work' - it's what happens when things start to fail that's the difficult bit. To ensure that it disconnects itself in such a way as to present as little danger as possible to life or property.
The twisted earth is very likely to be more than one wire twisted together, so the integrity of the connection is important to maintain earthing to other parts of the circuit. Twisted wires are not sufficient.
1. "It works". Maybe it does, but what's going on behind the panel? More DIY twisted together wires, that may have been loosened by pulling the wires while attaching the new light?
2. Lucky! The fault happened right away, before it could start carbonising, destroying insulation, and potentially cause a fire.
3. The safest outcome.

TheJay said:

Thank you all for your replies.

The new light fittings are dimmable and the fitting type is E14 (SES). It doesn't come with a place to connect earth and there isn't any reference to earth in the instructions.

Click to expand...

with E14 and E27 bases, it'sstandard practice to wire L to the centre contact and N to the outer. however, with the newer fittings, it does not matter so much as the thread is insulated from the supply cables

telectrix said:

with E14 and E27 bases, it'sstandard practice to wire L to the centre contact and N to the outer. however, with the newer fittings, it does not matter so much as the thread is insulated from the supply cables

Click to expand...

I've just found details in the specification confirming that it is double insulated.

Ok. I'll explain the concern.
The "partial rewire" would not have included these unless you moved in before 2004 as they are black sheathed. It's also not common way of doing domestic wiring, and hasn't been used that widely since the 70's/80's. I see cables like that in old schools / hospitals a lot, and occasionally in older houses.
All of this makes it look like this wiring hasn't been checked by a sparks, and a decent sparks wouldn't have left the earth wires like that.
Therefore we are concerned for your safety, and suggest you get a bit of help to help advance this project.
Contrary to rumours, most sparks aren't out to scam you, and this would be a quick visit. Many would not even charge for dropping by to help sort out what is going on. Whereabouts are you in the UK?

timhoward said:

Ok. I'll explain the concern.
The "partial rewire" would not have included these unless you moved in before 2004 as they are black sheathed. It's also not common way of doing domestic wiring, and hasn't been used that widely since the 70's/80's. I see cables like that in old schools / hospitals a lot, and occasionally in older houses.
All of this makes it look like this wiring hasn't been checked by a sparks, and a decent sparks wouldn't have left the earth wires like that.
Therefore we are concerned for your safety, and suggest you get a bit of help to help advance this project.
Contrary to rumours, most sparks aren't out to scam you, and this would be a quick visit. Many would not even charge for dropping by to help sort out what is going on. Whereabouts are you in the UK?

Click to expand...

In Worcester

You were right, live is single cable and neutral was twisted double.



Thank you for your help.

The fact that something electrical works' does not necessarily mean it's safe. What have you done with the cpcs?

TheJay said:

Nope, we had a partial rewire done and all existing wiring circuits were checked when we moved in.

Click to expand...

Looks extremely dubious. All live conductors the same colour and earth's butchered. No half decent spark would have left anything like that.

brianmoooore said:

The fact that something electrical works' does not necessarily mean it's safe. What have you done with the cpcs?

Click to expand...

It Works !!

brianmoooore said:

The fact that something electrical works' does not necessarily mean it's safe. What have you done with the cpcs?

Click to expand...

So I doubt you will get an answer to that question