Outdoor wall lighting

Phill104 · Mar 4, 2022

A little about myself first. After doing a physics degree I began working in the battery backup industry designing, testing and building prototype battery backup systems for the telecoms and oil industries. I then worked for a company building switch gear for the rail industry where I qualified 16th edition in 1992. I then rapidly moved into IT and since then barely touched electrics other than the odd commando socket or pat tests. So my experience is dated and limited to mainly industrial stuff. So I am very out of touch and hence my questions may seem basic.

I have no lighting in my garden and want to install a pair of wall lights, probably LED based down lights just to illuminate the patio. Would it be appropriate to use the following setup.

Spur off nearest ceiling rose with 1.5 twin/earth. Slap a quinetic in-line to save running a switched mains. This makes an easy, straight run to the outside wall, handily dead centre of the patio. The cable will go into a whiska box . Running out of either side of the box two rubber cables 180cm long either side to the lights clipped directly on the external wall.

Is that an acceptable setup meeting current standards?

James · Mar 4, 2022

That sounds ok, as long as the circuit is rcd protected

Phill104 · Mar 4, 2022

James said:
That sounds ok, as long as the circuit is rcd protected

Thank you, makes it nice and easy then. And yes, RCD protected. We had the board replaced just a year ago to add EV charging. Probably should have had it done then but we thought the crappy solar wall lights that were there would be OK. Unfortunately they go dim very quickly even after I replaced the 18650s in them. Just cannot charge enough due to lack of sunlight on that wall.

brianmoooore · Mar 4, 2022

I take it you're not responsible for the ridiculous AAA battery back up supply for the 'phone line in my BT fibre optic receiver? Lasts all of about 30 minutes.
Your plan for the lights sounds fine, except that 1.0mm2 is more than adequate. Never understood this 1.5mm2 thing for domestic lighting circuits.

Phill104 · Mar 4, 2022

brianmoooore said:
I take it you're not responsible for the ridiculous AAA battery back up supply for the 'phone line in my BT fibre optic receiver? Lasts all of about 30 minutes.
Your plan for the lights sounds fine, except that 1.0mm2 is more than adequate. Never understood this 1.5mm2 thing for domestic lighting circuits.

Eeek, I’m having fibre installed next Tuesday. Hope it isn’t that bad. What muppet thought a AAA would make sense. And no, it certainly wasn’t me. Stuff I worked on had 3” copper buzz bars so not really the sort of thing you want under your computer desk.

I have a roll of 1.5 kicking around so will use that. Saves buying some more that will be left to rot in my shed. Having said that I might have to get some to re-wire in the smoke alarm in my living room. You should see the state the “professional” installer made of it. He was too lazy to run the cable behind the ceiling despite it being a clear 35cm run from the rose, The conduit he left has to go.

brianmoooore · Mar 4, 2022

I turned off the supply that feeds my BT fibre modem (in the attic) to do some work on that circuit, and was astounded to find the landline completely dead about two hours later. Checked with my daughter, who works at a BT call centre, and she confirmed that the back up was a couple of rechargeable AAA cells, designed to last about half an hour on a good day. I'd assumed, when I switched to 'phone over fibre, that the back up would last a couple of days or so.
If you have the 1.5mm2 lying around, then there's no problem using it. Conversely, there is an argument, made by pedants, that all wiring supply smoke alarms should be 1.5mm2 to comply with the regs.

Phill104 · Mar 4, 2022

brianmoooore said:
I turned off the supply that feeds my BT fibre modem (in the attic) to do some work on that circuit, and was astounded to find the landline completely dead about two hours later. Checked with my daughter, who works at a BT call centre, and she confirmed that the back up was a couple of rechargeable AAA cells, designed to last about half an hour on a good day. I'd assumed, when I switched to 'phone over fibre, that the back up would last a couple of days or so.
If you have the 1.5mm2 lying around, then there's no problem using it. Conversely, there is an argument, made by pedants, that all wiring supply smoke alarms should be 1.5mm2 to comply with the regs.

Just checked the fire alarm wiring an 1.0 is installed. Three days after installation the downstairs lighting started flickering. As it was all downstairs lights I checked the RCD as the wifi/cellular box for the alarms was tagged off it. Yes, he had left the screw loose. So I do not have much confidence in the rest of his work.

Here is a shot of one room. Yes, the ceiling is being painted this weekend, looks much worse in the pics.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Outdoor wall lighting

brianmoooore · Mar 4, 2022

The Aico alarm bases are designed to accept trunking, if required. How does the trunking end at the pendant end? ( You can't use trunking with screw on covers.)

SJD · Mar 5, 2022

That smoke alarm is so close to the light, assuming there is a ceiling void (and not concrete or a steel above), I'd be suprised if you can't put the smoke alarm cable in the ceiling usings cable rods & accessories.

Phill104 · Mar 5, 2022

brianmoooore said:
The Aico alarm bases are designed to accept trunking, if required. How does the trunking end at the pendant end? ( You can't use trunking with screw on covers.)

It is a screw on cover. He added a bit behind to accommodate the trunking. This is the first time I have actually inspected it. The void from rose to alarm is clear so easy to run behind. To be fair to the installer I hadn’t yet had an asbestos survey done so he was probably not wanting to make a hole. Either that or just laziness. Leaving the RCD screw loose suggested the latter.

SJD said:
That smoke alarm is so close to the light, assuming there is a ceiling void (and not concrete or a steel above), I'd be suprised if you can't put the smoke alarm cable in the ceiling usings cable rods & accessories.

Yep, and I will do just that. I am painting this weekend so will do it then. I actually read the notes for the alarm and according to the manufacturers specs it has been placed too close anyway. They have a minimum distance presumably to allow best smoke flow. The one in the hall is even worse being just 12cm from the rose.

The photo doesn’t show it too well but most terminals have a lot of bare wire hanging out and that triggers me too, but I am a fussy git.

brianmoooore · Mar 5, 2022

So he stuck a surface pattress behind the rose as well! At least it was a similar diameter to the rose, and not considerably smaller like some I've seen.

Phill104 · Mar 5, 2022

brianmoooore said:
So he stuck a surface pattress behind the rose as well! At least it was a similar diameter to the rose, and not considerably smaller like some I've seen.

Yep. I plan to fix that today. Seems like you are very familiar with these alarms.

Great forums by the way. Some wonderful knowledge sharing here.

brianmoooore · Mar 5, 2022

The one good thing about your install is the choice of an Aico alarm. These are generally reckoned to be the best available, and would be even better if they did something about the silly little wiring box.
I have 14 alarms around my property here, and 5 yet to install. Everyone of them Aico.

littlespark · Mar 5, 2022

I wonder why they used trunking like that rather than the 10 year battery detectors with radio interconnect?
The extra purchase price spent is covered by the saving in installation time.

Rockingit · Mar 5, 2022

brianmoooore said:
There is an argument, made by pedants, that all wiring supply smoke alarms should be 1.5mm2 to comply with the regs.

Please, do enlighten me......

Outdoor wall lighting

Phill104

James

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Phill104

brianmoooore

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Phill104

brianmoooore

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Phill104

brianmoooore

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SJD

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Phill104

brianmoooore

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Phill104

brianmoooore

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littlespark

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Rockingit

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