A few general questions for any who fits solar panels?

Last time I looked the feed-in tariff made panels uneconomic. As in not paying for themselves over 25 years.

That might change, but I suspect now there are the preserve of off-grid folks, virtue-signalling middle class, or folks replacing ones that still qualify for the generoud tariffs of around decade ago.

But hopefully others with actual PV experience know more than me!

I use to fit them as systems and was approved by Stroma and MCS registered up until about 8 years ago!
1. I always needed at least 1 helper, also a surveyor for roof loading and a Scaffolding contractor or a MEWP
2. Not any more for new systems afaik and if there is its no more than a few pence per KWh.
3. I have found there is for off grid places and have done a few stables and remote lodges with no power, all have had generators as well as solar with storage batteries.
4. Haven't really seen an increase but with electricity prices only set to rise there may be a new uptake.
5. Yes it was a challenge and not always the best weather but the views from rooftops were sometimes spectacular and it was a good crack with the right people!
6. It wasn't too bad but there was a lot to pay out to be MCS approved and Stroma registered and insurance for them. + just like the OLEV paperwork registration was far from easy.

I found I could make the same or sometimes more doing my normal agricultural and commercial installation work with less paperwork and headaches.

SparkySy said:

I use to fit them as systems and was approved by Stroma and MCS registered up until about 8 years ago!
1. I always needed at least 1 helper, also a surveyor for roof loading and a Scaffolding contractor or a MEWP
2. Not any more for new systems afaik and if there is its no more than a few pence per KWh.
3. I have found there is for off grid places and have done a few stables and remote lodges with no power, all have had generators as well as solar with storage batteries.
4. Haven't really seen an increase but with electricity prices only set to rise there may be a new uptake.
5. Yes it was a challenge and not always the best weather but the views from rooftops were sometimes spectacular and it was a good crack with the right people!
6. It wasn't too bad but there was a lot to pay out to be MCS approved and Stroma registered and insurance for them. + just like the OLEV paperwork registration was far from easy.

I found I could make the same or sometimes more doing my normal agricultural and commercial installation work with less paperwork and headaches.

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Thanks for all those detailed answers Sparysy. Reckon I'll give it a bit more thought! The 1 or 2 queries I have had have been about off grid.

I looked at solar pv and came to much the same as above.
The costs to get set up are high. You could install outside the mcs scheme as its not mandatory but customer then cant export.
I have instead focused on battery storage and have fitted one system so far (givenergy do complete invertor and battery kits) can add solar later. I have fitted a few panels on garden offices and extensions more as a token gesture for planning and virtue signalling middle classes etc
There is a growing market of people charging overnight with octopus go and storing it in batteries at 5-7.5p per kw then using during day instead of paying 30+pence per unit.
It can also be added to existing solar pv installs.
I worked out its better to let others join the solar pv price wars for now as i sometimes cant work out the profit for some of these install quotes... I would make more fitting a zappi.
Aftersales additions is where the money is at.

HappyHippyDad said:

I still enjoy my work, but have a bit of an itch to try something a little different, perhaps solar.

A few (Saturday coffee) questions for those of you who install solar panels in domestic situations....

1. Do you do this by yourself (i.e one person) or do you always need a helper?

2. Is there a government grant (as with EV)?

3. Is there still a reasonable demand for it?

4. Do you foresee this demand increasing or decreasing?

5. Do you enjoy it?

6. Does it pay well? (better, much the same or worse than standard domestic work?)

I'll pour another coffee and log back on in a bit

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Hi HappyHippyDad I thought i would post a replay, i retired when the pandemic hit us all and i needed to keep the mind and body active i did a few (lots) of calculations to work out why the leccy was more than usual! simply put leaving the TV on as i decorated and the heated cats blanket 24/7 and the list goes on and on...
i came to the conclusion that a small simple solar system would make a difference to the leccy bill.. So it was Game ON.
What i have now is 2-345 watt panels, MPPT controller, 2-110 Amps Batteries (24 Volt System) and Auto Chargers
At the moment they are mounted to the garden fence on an angle and all the tronics are in the shed 10 foot away, on an average day (not blazing sunshine) is gives 300 to 400 watts to charge the batteries and power the TV, Audio System, Media Boxes, Internet Fridge Freezer and All Lights/Spot Lights. Even on a mediocre day the backup chargers don't kick in but when the sun goes down the batteries keep the system going until the voltage drops below the low level set point.
On a really Dull Day i reckon the panels only provide 25-30% of the power and the chargers kick in. On a Sunny Day there is more than needed and thinking of adding switch over to the Mircowave/Slow Cooker or possibly even a water heater small tank . The total cost of the 2 Panels, MPPT Controller, Inverter, Batteries and Chargers was £900
The Maths says its a payback period of 2-3 years with a life of 20 years for the panels, Batteries for as long as they last and electronic Who Knows?
Do i enjoy it? Yes Will i enjoy putting the panels on the Roof? NO... Will i do it alone? Ohh Yes! No Way am i getting on a sloping roof with a helper...
Forget Feed in Tariffs.. Use What you make... Do the calculations and eliminate the cost of making it power everything, only power stuff thats used and on more than switched off, the TV/Audio are on from 6am till 10PM
This is Deffo a retired persons power economic solution to reduce costs
Regards RBS

RayBlueSky said:

The Maths says its a payback period of 2-3 years with a life of 20 years for the panels, Batteries for as long as they last and electronic Who Knows?

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What do you assume for the average power?

From here it looks like your 2*345W panels would average 2kWh/day:

At 27p/kWh for argument that us just under £200/year so closer to 5 year to break even assuming no faults. etc. in the time.

pc1966 said:

What do you assume for the average power?

From here it looks like your 2*345W panels would average 2kWh/day:

Newcastle upon Tyne Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (United Kingdom) - Weather Spark

In Newcastle upon Tyne, the summers are short and cool; the winters are long, very cold, and windy; and it is partly cloudy year round. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 35°F to 66°F and is rarely below 26°F or above 74°F.

weatherspark.com

At 27p/kWh for argument that us just under £200/year so closer to 5 year to break even assuming no faults. etc. in the time.

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PC1966 Please Please PLEASE give the name of the energy supplier that sells Leccy at 27p per KWh for the next 3 years...
OK i admit my calculations are based on possible worst case scenario of energy cost rises as we are seeing at this point in time. it may be a huge blip of an increased energy costs but i did factor it in to the payback time.
Regards RBS

No idea what future costs will be, but for 2022 it is looking grim in all ways. Just looked at the letter I got from OVO (was SSE) and I will be on 27.9p/kWh from April.

What 1-2 years down the line shows could vary a lot!

pc1966 said:

No idea what future costs will be, but for 2022 it is looking grim in all ways. Just looked at the letter I got from OVO (was SSE) and I will be on 27.9p/kWh from April.

What 1-2 years down the line shows could vary a lot!

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A workmate in Yorkshire built a small 500w system comprising a panel,invertor/charger and some 2nd hand fork lift batteries.
.It works in summer to supply a freezer and lights etc at night,but in winter the output is so low,he has to charge
the batteries from the mains just to keep them healthy.It sounds like the law of diminishing returns to me.
S

pc1966 said:

No idea what future costs will be, but for 2022 it is looking grim in all ways. Just looked at the letter I got from OVO (was SSE) and I will be on 27.9p/kWh from April.

What 1-2 years down the line shows could vary a lot!

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That's an excellent rate, i went on to the OVO site to see what they would offer me as a new customer See Pic :-(

sinewove said:

A workmate in Yorkshire built a small 500w system comprising a panel,invertor/charger and some 2nd hand fork lift batteries.
.It works in summer to supply a freezer and lights etc at night,but in winter the output is so low,he has to charge
the batteries from the mains just to keep them healthy.It sounds like the law of diminishing returns to me.
S

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Hi Sinewov, i am more of an optimist and see any power harvested during the day is beneficially positive.
As i mentioned in my post the charging automatically kicks in if the battery voltage drops, The 24 volt chargers are auto sensing the required charge input and only put in the amount of charge needed to keep the inverter operational, in essence if i turn on the TV/Audio and the Freezer kicks in and all the lights are switched on and if the panels provide enough energy the chargers are OFF But if the sky goes Dark Black and the voltage drops only then do the chargers automatically sense the voltage drop and kick in its only then the chargers automatically provide just enough charge input to keep the voltage steady, its not a Charge Up/Discharge System, so in essence when i check the system it can have 200 watts from the solar panel and 50 watts fluctuating from the chargers.
At night it will drop to a trickle charge and switch off charging.
Just been out to check the Solar Stuff and at 9.55 its kicking out 501 watts topping at 555 watts, Batteries are charging and Everything in the Bungalow is running Off Solar, Happy Days
It maybe your workmate has bought a cheap solar panel and a basic controller and inverter using duff forklift truck batteries, all i will say is i a retired electrical engineer and spent 2 months doing the maths and finding the correct panels, MPPT controller, auto chargers and batteries, the system had to be as low cost as possible but still function and save energy costs. Best Regards RBS

Some pics
A friend spent 11K on solar panels years ago and recently got talked into a 3K battery to maximize the energy use during the winter evenings as the FIT was reduced, i am very happy with my 900 quid system
This system works for me Regards RBS

RayBlueSky said:

That's an excellent rate, i went on to the OVO site to see what they would offer me as a new customer See Pic :-(

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Ah, that is for fixed rate. I'm sure OVO plans to royally ream me when the next tariff cap raise occurs

pc1966 said:

Ah, that is for fixed rate. I'm sure OVO plans to royally ream me when the next tariff cap raise occurs

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Me thinks i will check out the cost of an additional Solar Panel Fortunately the inverter, batteries and controller can cope with a 33% PV increase, it may take the sting out of any additional charges. I still cant get my head around why the standing charge has gone up so dramatically GrRRrrrrrr. Regards R