Good Old Delroy, he gets all the best Jobs :)

Dustydazzler · Oct 10, 2021

Pretty Mouth · Mar 29, 2022

Back then, 'cavity batts' as they were known, were slabs of rockwool type insulation that were placed in the cavity and typically bridged the whole cavity. Supposedly they were manufactured so that the fibres were oriented so that any moisture would travel straight down, rather than wicking across.

philectrical · Mar 29, 2022

Poor lad on that video is probably working for free.

Mike Johnson · Mar 30, 2022

Will this. do, note the perps not filled to act as weep holes to stop the cavity filling up with water and coming out the top.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Good Old Delroy, he gets all the best Jobs :)

Pretty Mouth · Mar 30, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
Will this. do, note the perps not filled to act as weep holes to stop the cavity filling up with water and coming out the top.

View attachment 96464

No Mike, this doesn't tell us anything.

Approved document C is here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/431943/BR_PDF_AD_C_2013.pdf

In fact, there is a relevant paragraph in there, 5.5c:

If the wall is an external cavity wall, (see Diagram 9a) the cavity should be taken down at least 225mm below the level of the lowest damp-proof course, or a damp-proof tray should be provided so as to prevent precipitation passing into the inner leaf (see Diagram 9b), with weep holes every 900mm to assist in the transfer of moisture through the external leaf.

Bear in mind that the DPC is at least 150mm above GL, taking the cavity down 225mm is easily done, much easier than running a cavity tray round the whole building. So hardly standard practice.

On the matter of full fill insulation:

CAVITY INSULATION
5.15
A full or partial fill insulating material may be placed in the cavity between the outer leaf and an inner leaf of masonry subject to the following conditions:

....

then later...

When the cavity of an existing house is being filled, special attention should be given to the condition of the external leaf of the wall, e.g. its state of repair and type of pointing. Guidance is given in BS 8208-1:1985111. Some materials that are used to fill existing cavity walls may have a low risk of moisture being carried over to the internal leaf of the wall.

I infer from this last paragraph that the likelihood of moisture tracking across the cavity via insulation is low, is less likely to happen to a wall in good state of repair, and is even less likely to be a problem with walls that were insulated during construction

Pretty Mouth · Mar 30, 2022

So. No cavity trays at ground level required, full fill insulation is allowed (and common place IME), and risk of moisture crossing the cavity is low.

Mike Johnson · Mar 30, 2022

The original issue was and is the use of the cavity to run cables.

Cavity trays are used when solid concrete floors are cast supported by the ground or beam and block floors supported on lightweight fill, the construction of suspended timber floors is very rare in this age of quick build, cavity trays where used in all the housing estates I was involved with during my working life in the South of England due to the possibility of marsh gas from the clay sub-soil.

On Insulation the latest perceived wisdom is partial fill of cavities with a minimum of 50mm gap between insulation and the outer skin.

Pretty Mouth · Mar 30, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
The original issue was and is the use of the cavity to run cables.

Cavity trays are used when solid concrete floors are cast supported by the ground or beam and block floors supported on lightweight fill, the construction of suspended timber floors is very rare in this age of quick build, cavity trays where used in all the housing estates I was involved with during my working life in the South of England due to the possibility of marsh gas from the clay sub-soil.

On Insulation the latest perceived wisdom is partial fill of cavities with a minimum of 50mm gap between insulation and the outer skin.

Mike, can you please define 'strawmanning', so the forum can understand where you're coming from

mainline · Mar 30, 2022

Pretty Mouth said:
That's the theory. Real world, even a 9" solid wall doesn't allow significant damp to pass through to the inside, unless it's very exposed to the prevailing wind, or the rainwater goods have failed and are pouring water all down the wall. The odds of significant moisture making its way to the inner leaf of a cavity wall via cables run in the cavity are very low indeed.

I have never heard of cavity trays and weep holes being installed at the base of cavity walls, or of any houses being damaged by cavity insulation. What are your sources for this? Genuinely interested to hear more about this.

There are lots of references to the use of cavity trays at the base of buildings, so it's strange that with all your building knowledge you hadn't heard of it before, It should make you happy that you have learnt something from Mike because as you have said in the past you come on here to learn.

mainline · Mar 30, 2022

timhoward said:
His one endearing quality is that he has no airs and graces and is not afraid to say that he doesn't know what's up.
Obviously unscripted, completely as it happens.
So many other channels present the activities as a polished perfected series of events where everything seems to go flawlessly.
While my reaction usually ranges from "hmmm, that's a bit iffy" to "WHAT??!?!?!" I still usually find it an entertaining watch.

I agree it's entertaining, I would place it in the category of comedy.

Petej999 · Mar 30, 2022

Pretty Mouth said:
Mike, can you please define 'strawmanning', so the forum can why understand where you're coming from,That's why T don't comment that much

Think he means STRAMETT BOARD

richy3333 said:
The obvious one that springs to mind was him taking down a wall and then jointing cables in a wago box and ----ing it up into the ceiling and calling it MF. The materials and method he used did not constitute a MF junction box. I politely noted it on his comments and he removed the comment ?

He doesn't like to be criticised that much does he?

mainline · Mar 31, 2022

Petej999 said:
Think he means STRAMETT BOARD

He doesn't like to be criticised that much does he?

His son does all the web stuff, and I'm guessing he would find it difficult to tell his father that even after 40 years experience in his job that he's still blissfully ignorant.

mainline · Mar 31, 2022

goasis said:
ah, those beads that get pumped into cavities sometimes, fair enough.

I only asked because in the video the room has a short wall all the way round, presumably the cavity is open at the top, and i guess with rockwool or celotex in the cavity, so running cables through it would seem a reasonable way to do it in this instance, same as you see in alot of conservatories. Delroy was 'teaching' the new lad and said you weren't allowed to do that but he didn't know why......

I agree in this instance, using the cavity would be reasonable.

Mike Johnson · Mar 31, 2022

I'm sorry, but using the cavity to run cables is not reasonable or acceptable in any circumstance, possible bridging of the cavity tie which has a drip on it to allow moisture to drip to the bottom of the cavity, but any penetration of the skin/insulation will introduce a thermal bridge, in a conservatory the correct way would be to run conduit in the floor, if the inside skin is fair faced brick then the back of the brick on the inside face is chased out to provide a passage for the conduit.

mainline · Mar 31, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
I'm sorry, but using the cavity to run cables is not reasonable or acceptable in any circumstance, possible bridging of the cavity tie which has a drip on it to allow moisture to drip to the bottom of the cavity, but any penetration of the skin/insulation will introduce a thermal bridge, in a conservatory the correct way would be to run conduit in the floor, if the inside skin is fair faced brick then the back of the brick on the inside face is chased out to provide a passage for the conduit.

My point would be that in this instance he can ensure that no breach would exist as it's open and low, giving easy access.

I have no idea of the layout but assume the demand isn't going to be very high, so depending on the layout would think about a radial/s rather than the ring final.

Mike Johnson · Mar 31, 2022

Still the point of introducing a thermal bridge unless the cable can be placed on the inside face of the cavity insulation.

Good Old Delroy, he gets all the best Jobs :)

Dustydazzler

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philectrical

Mike Johnson

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Pretty Mouth

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Pretty Mouth

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