Potential client sends pics that concern me

M-B-Electrical-Services · Apr 5, 2022

Hi all.

Just a quick question, for you guys. I have received a phone call today with a request to carry out a commercial EICR on a chip shop which has a flat above. I said I would send a quotation when back in the office to which she said "I'll send some pics".

After receiving the pics, I kinda recoiled because the pics were of a 3 phase supply feeding an isolator for the flat above and a small 8 way PVC consumer unit with its cover missing feeding the shop. There is an exposed busbar and multiple cables coming in from all directions going in to various mcb's feeding multiple circuits.

As an Inspector and company owner, I am reluctant to even take this job on as I feel it could turn into an absolute nightmare.
Am I right in saying that if I do commit to the job, I am taking legal responsibility for the electrical installation?

Don't think I want to do that but I feel I need to explain the danger to the person ordering the works.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Potential client sends pics that concern me

ferg · Apr 5, 2022

Oh dear that's a bit rough round the edges.

If you don't want to do it just say so and in writing tell them it is an immediate danger, outline the risks and that it should be fixed as quickly as possible.

Dustydazzler · Apr 5, 2022

Ha Ha

That is a very typical shop / pub lash up

See these all the time , I personally won't entertain an EICR on this rubbish but I know loads of people who for a bit of cash will pass this sh!t off as fit for continued use

M-B-Electrical-Services · Apr 5, 2022

ferg said:
Oh dear that's a bit rough round the edges.

If you don't want to do it just say so and in writing tell them it is an immediate danger, outline the risks and that it should be fixed as quickly as possible.

Hi Ferg.

Yeah, it's a tough call to make but I don't want to take responsibility for an installation if the consumer unit is in that state!
Generally, if the CU is like that then the entire installation is likely to be of the same standard and I'll waste a ton of time filling out an EICR and detailed remedials quote only for them to get their mate round the corner to do it (or probably not do it more than likely). Plus, there's flat upstairs so there's the responsibility for that too!

M-B-Electrical-Services · Apr 5, 2022

Dustydazzler said:
Ha Ha

That is a very typical shop / pub lash up

See these all the time , I personally won't entertain an EICR on this rubbish but I know loads of people who for a bit of cash will pass this sh!t off as fit for continued use

Very true, seen it a million times when I was PAYE but now it's MY business, so I'm a bit more selective on what I choose to accept.

The thing is, in the back of my mind, doing this could lead to other work so there's always that niggle in the back of your mind when you work for yourself!!

Dartlec · Apr 5, 2022

If you commit to the job then you are taking on responsibility for doing a fair and accurate EICR, nothing more.

Obviously if you were to list no codes and say it's satisfactory, then that would put you under some liability if anything was to happen - though I suspect this has probably been like it for some time. It's not even that bad, if the cover could be found

But if you did the EICR and noted the fault and informed them (including the rather obvious C1), then you've done your duty.

Of course the problem is that the person ordering the works if often under the impression they are buying a 'pass', rather than a condition report, so that might be something you wanted to make clear up front. Being very optimistic, maybe they are aware there are issues and want to improve things!

However, I decided very quickly after looking at the lash up in a pizza shop many years ago that I didn't want to touch that sort of work.

M-B-Electrical-Services · Apr 5, 2022

Dartlec said:
If you commit to the job then you are taking on responsibility for doing a fair and accurate EICR, nothing more.

Obviously if you were to list no codes and say it's satisfactory, then that would put you under some liability if anything was to happen - though I suspect this has probably been like it for some time. It's not even that bad, if the cover could be found

But if you did the EICR and noted the fault and informed them (including the rather obvious C1), then you've done your duty.

Of course the problem is that the person ordering the works if often under the impression they are buying a 'pass', rather than a condition report, so that might be something you wanted to make clear up front. Being very optimistic, maybe they are aware there are issues and want to improve things!

However, I decided very quickly after looking at the lash up in a pizza shop many years ago that I didn't want to touch that sort of work.

Totally agree.

I have just sent a vey polite email declining to quote for the work but have stressed the dangers and importance of getting the installation checked immediately.

I think it's the right thing to do in this situation.

Some things are best left untouched.

M-B-Electrical-Services · Apr 6, 2022

I received an email off the person ordering the work thanking me for my honesty and time.

Good result I feel.

Thanks for the input guys.

Deleted account · Apr 6, 2022

If I where to undertake this one I would state before starting.

I will be turning off all the power to the installation to do the testing. Based on what I see in the pictures sent I will unlikely be re energising the installation after I have finished The testing.

UNG · Apr 7, 2022

I think this type of job needs some interaction with the customer / client before just binning it off, over the years I've found you can missjudge some potential customers and those that you think are going to be problematic can become some of your best customers

Unless there is a cover lying round for the consumer unit it is clear that it will be an unsatisfactory EICR before even starting, the customer / clients reaction to the likelyhood of a CU change before the EICR will give you a measure of whether to continue or not IMO

What sticks in my mind what happens if every electrician that is approached declines this job, it is not a bad thing being risk averse but it still leaves an installation that presents a clear and obvious danger and should a incident occur that puts the customer / client in court and in their defence they give a list of all the companies contacted that declined the work I'm sure the press would have a field day publishing that

LukeD · Apr 7, 2022

Its interesting that these types only want work done when it has to be done for legal reasons .But until then they are happy to have a crap install and all the risks .I wont ever work for people like this .They are wasters

UNG · Apr 7, 2022

LukeD said:
Its interesting that these types only want work done when it has to be done for legal reasons .But until then they are happy to have a crap install and all the risks .I wont ever work for people like this .They are wasters

On what do you base your judgement it is all too easy to condemn people without ever having met them you don't know the circumstances that prompted the EICR request
I've had more problems where there are multiple expensive cars in the drive of an expensive house you think they can pay and the reality is they won't or can't pay

pc1966 · Apr 7, 2022

UNG said:
Unless there is a cover lying round for the consumer unit it is clear that it will be an unsatisfactory EICR before even starting, the customer / clients reaction to the likelyhood of a CU change before the EICR will give you a measure of whether to continue or not IMO

Even if the cover still exists nearby, that last MCB has to come out to fit it, and the cable it feeds is not routed through the box!

While it is not something i do, if presented with this i would at least chat to them and explain that aspect simply has to be fixed so if they want it done it will cost this much for the fix (probably new CU as I suspect lid is long gone or broken) plus probably other things will be found.

I am not that comfortable at this, as above I would suspect there is a lot more wrong, but as @UNG points out if nobody competent will touch it even if the client is willing to put it right, then it is going to be a cowboy fix that might not be much better.

LukeD · Apr 7, 2022

UNG said:
On what do you base your judgement it is all too easy to condemn people without ever having met them you don't know the circumstances that prompted the EICR request
I've had more problems where there are multiple expensive cars in the drive of an expensive house you think they can pay and the reality is they won't or can't pay

Experience ....

7029 dave · Apr 7, 2022

If it was me, just by having those pictures being sent. I would have told the client straight off the bat that is a C1 and if the cover was not on site to be found, a new CU would need to be installed. See what kind of response you got before making a decision.
Not being critical OP but if every electrician was to just knock back these kind of jobs, they will never get done other than by Dave down the pub.
Send him my details

Potential client sends pics that concern me

M-B-Electrical-Services

ferg

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Dustydazzler

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M-B-Electrical-Services

M-B-Electrical-Services

Dartlec

M-B-Electrical-Services

M-B-Electrical-Services

Deleted account

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UNG

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LukeD

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UNG

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pc1966

LukeD

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7029 dave

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