How would you fix the install of this 2 gang socket?

cjc1867 · Apr 23, 2022

Hi
I noticed a 2 gang socket that was broken in half in one of my Landlord's properties that I was getting ready for the next tenants.

I bought a new one and wired it and then attempted to screw it to the back box. It was a tight fit and I couldn't get the front of the socket to sit flush with the wall.

I ended up leaving it and carried on with another job. I went back to it the other day and had another go. I unravelled the wires and was amazed how long they were so no wonder I had trouble fitting it.

I can't screw the back box in properly as you can see from the photo attached. It only had 1 screw in place and that was cockeyed.

Whoever has done this job has made a right botched job of this and I don't know what to do to repair it.

If you came face to face with this problem, what would you do to fix it?

Cheers

Colin

Dartlec · Apr 23, 2022

That wall looks like one of those nasty crumbly block ones that are very difficult to get a plug or fixing to hold in.

If you can get the back box in and flush to the wall, then some bonding or similar would likely hold it in place sufficiently.

If you or the landlord knows a plasterer they may be worth talking to as you likely only need a small bit.

Some years ago I had a similar issue and used some dry mix quick set cement type stuff, but I forget what product it was.

catdog1121 · Apr 23, 2022

Few options..

Take the floor up, put a maintenance free box under the floor to extend the cable, then move the socket up, cutting in a new box.
Dig out the current hole so it will fit a 35mm back box, if you cant get fixings then use some some bonding plaster, putting wall plugs into the bonding plaster and screwing in the back box while wet, squeezing the plaster round the back box, should not move once dry..
Drill new holes in the back box so you can get a fixing point elsewhere

What ever you do I would fit a 35mm back box as much easier to put the faceplate back than the current 25mm back box.. If you ever struggle with a 25mm back box they do I think like 8mm spacers which can help..

westward10 · Apr 23, 2022

catdog1121 said:
Few options..

Take the floor up, put a maintenance free box under the floor to extend the cable, then move the socket up, cutting in a new box.

Dig out the current hole so it will fit a 35mm back box, if you cant get fixings then use some some bonding plaster, putting wall plugs into the bonding plaster and screwing in the back box while wet, squeezing the plaster round the back box, should not move once dry..

Drill new holes in the back box so you can get a fixing point elsewhere

What ever you do I would fit a 35mm back box as much easier to put the faceplate back than the current 25mm back box.. If you ever struggle with a 25mm back box they do I think like 8mm spacers which can help..

Why on earth would a single 2.5 cable not readily fit to a 25mm back box.

ipf · Apr 23, 2022

There's evidence of a short of some kind....blackened earth sleeving which also looks like it's been trapped and that looks like it might be a blackened nick on the brown.

SparkySy · Apr 23, 2022

As above that looks like there is a Nick in the live that has shorted and caused the black marks on the earth sleeving. It may well snap off if bent around too much as it will be have been weakened by the short! It needs fixing before either bonding a new box in or moving the socket over and fill the old hole. I have used gyproc easyfill for patching up holes in the past, 20min set 5kg bag from wicks. Easy to use and finish once set.
Sy

littlespark · Apr 24, 2022

That’s had gripfill or plaster trying to hold it before…. You can see the indentations of the rear knockouts on the back of the hole.

timhoward · Apr 24, 2022

I’d be asking if the socket is used and if so if it’s in a good place for its use, with a view to disconnecting the other end and starting again somewhere else!

If it needs to stay there then having sorted any cable faults as per advice above, first anything very loose needs to come out and then I’d try and make some small 4mm holes (without hammer) into anything that was reasonably solid and wall-dog screws (by hand). I wouldn’t go anywhere near it with a 6mm sds drill and and impact driver unless I found something really solid to work with.

Then fill around the box. Certainly not an easy job.

Mike Johnson · Apr 24, 2022

Under ream the blockwork and fix the box in with a Polyester resin, obtainable from Screwfix and many other place's.

LukeD · Apr 24, 2022

cjc1867 said:
Hi
I noticed a 2 gang socket that was broken in half in one of my Landlord's properties that I was getting ready for the next tenants.

I bought a new one and wired it and then attempted to screw it to the back box. It was a tight fit and I couldn't get the front of the socket to sit flush with the wall.

I ended up leaving it and carried on with another job. I went back to it the other day and had another go. I unravelled the wires and was amazed how long they were so no wonder I had trouble fitting it.

I can't screw the back box in properly as you can see from the photo attached. It only had 1 screw in place and that was cockeyed.

Whoever has done this job has made a right botched job of this and I don't know what to do to repair it.

If you came face to face with this problem, what would you do to fix it?

Cheers

Colin

First ..let the customer know whats going on and make sure you charge the right money .landlords all seem to expect cheap work

DPG · Apr 24, 2022

LukeD said:
First ..let the customer know whats going on and make sure you charge the right money .landlords all seem to expect cheap work

Not all of them. I don't for one.

LukeD · Apr 24, 2022

DPG said:
Not all of them. I don't for one.

You are in the tiny % that do....

nicebutdim · Apr 24, 2022

LukeD said:
You are in the tiny % that do....

By what measure do you arrive at this conclusion? Personal experience is hardly representative of tens of thousands of landlords across the country.

DPG · Apr 24, 2022

LukeD said:
You are in the tiny % that do....

Give me the percentages of bad/good landlords, and then the same for bad/good tenants. Please quote sources.

littlespark · Apr 24, 2022

calm down, lads... itsd only a discussion... Lets just say "some" landlords, "some" tenants.....etc etc

Think of it the same as "some" plumbers are idiots.... "some" kitchen fitters are dangerous around electricity....

LukeD · Apr 24, 2022

DPG said:
Give me the percentages of bad/good landlords, and then the same for bad/good tenants. Please quote sources.

The bad tenant thing is not the issue been discussed .... The facts remain, a customer needs to be kept up to speed if any issues that might mean extra costs . They tend to hate paying real rates ! And 40 years based around London has given me the right to say most landlords tend to really want to skimp when they can and cut legal corners if possible .

nicebutdim · Apr 24, 2022

LukeD said:
The bad tenant thing is not the issue been discussed .... The facts remain, a customer needs to be kept up to speed if any issues that might mean extra costs . They tend to hate paying real rates ! And 40 years based around London has given me the right to say most landlords tend to really want to skimp when they can and cut legal corners if possible .

Considering the number of landlords in London, it does nothing of the sort. Your experience is just that and no one is denying that there are many landlords who are far from responsible.

Mike Johnson · Apr 24, 2022

LukeD said:
The bad tenant thing is not the issue been discussed .... The facts remain, a customer needs to be kept up to speed if any issues that might mean extra costs . They tend to hate paying real rates ! And 40 years based around London has given me the right to say most landlords tend to really want to skimp when they can and cut legal corners if possible .

You obviously work at the lower end of the market, in my experience in London, the vast majority of Landlords want a legal job and want their lets to be compliant.

cjc1867 · Apr 25, 2022

Well done for spotting the short. Yes I caused a short trying to tighten the socket. These wires look way too long and hence the reason why it won't tighten up...

I think the Live might be too short now but I will check.

There's another socket further down the room like for each side of the bed.

I replaced a light fitting by the doorway and the wiring doesn't look right. There was no ceiling rose and the 2 wires for the brass light were connected to a choc box and no earth attached to the metal casing. This light is not on a two way switch either as the light is positioned on the ground floor and the flat is on the next floor up.

So it looks like some corners have been cut and maybe by the landlord and yes he does like cheap jobs being done.

I on the other hand would like to do the job properly but I'm lacking a bit of knowledge, hence the reason for asking advice.

Colin

DPG · Apr 25, 2022

cjc1867 said:
Well done for spotting the short. Yes I caused a short trying to tighten the socket. These wires look way too long and hence the reason why it won't tighten up...

I think the Live might be too short now but I will check.

There's another socket further down the room like for each side of the bed.

I replaced a light fitting by the doorway and the wiring doesn't look right. There was no ceiling rose and the 2 wires for the brass light were connected to a choc box and no earth attached to the metal casing. This light is not on a two way switch either as the light is positioned on the ground floor and the flat is on the next floor up.

So it looks like some corners have been cut and maybe by the landlord and yes he does like cheap jobs being done.

I on the other hand would like to do the job properly but I'm lacking a bit of knowledge, hence the reason for asking advice.

Colin

Has the landlord had an EICR carried out for the property? And is there RCD protection to these circuits?

Just worried that if anything goes wrong in the future (eg tenant receives electric shock etc), you're the one who touched the electrics last.

littlespark · Apr 25, 2022

You shouldn’t be touching the electrics.

Your landlord is legally obliged to make sure his accommodation is safe.

DPG · Apr 25, 2022

littlespark said:
You shouldn’t be touching the electrics.

Your landlord is legally obliged to make sure his accommodation is safe.

I reckon the OP is a handyman and just going as far as like for like replacements normally. Be interesting to see if any EICR has been done

cjc1867 · Apr 25, 2022

2 x 2 gang sockets were broken, I replaced the other one with no problems so this one should have been the same but it wasn't.

I will ask about the EICR when I see him later.

Simple socket changing isn't a problem for me, it's the other side of the socket is where I am struggling with.

Colin

DPG · Apr 25, 2022

cjc1867 said:
2 x 2 gang sockets were broken, I replaced the other one with no problems so this one should have been the same but it wasn't.

I will ask about the EICR when I see him later.

Simple socket changing isn't a problem for me, it's the other side of the socket is where I am struggling with.

Colin

When you sort the lamp which isn't earthed, how will you test it?

I'd be wary of doing any work at this property, even like-for-like swaps until you know if it has had an EICR.