1950s IM Power Relay Timer Help for Solenoid Valves | Page 3 | on ElectriciansForums

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Hi there

Complete novice electrical wise. I am refurbishing an old 1950s Injection Moulding machine and looking to replace the Power Timer Relays. So far with no success myself and two attempts. It appears I need some expert help. I would love direction on the type of timer I need and a link to where I could purchase is a bonus. Any help much appreciated. Details below:

The old Timers:
[ElectriciansForums.net] 1950s IM Power Relay Timer Help for Solenoid Valves


What I've investigated:
  • There are 2x Timers, one for inject and one for clamp
  • They are both the same, because I can swap them around and it still runs just fine
  • Markings still remaining on one says Supply 230 V AC and Rating 6A 230 V AC. There is no cut down in power on this machine, 240V throughout.
  • They appear to be short-circuit driven (not power on all the time and Start commands etc)
  • Power is only supplied when they run and is instantly straight through to the output
  • 11 pin circular configuration
  • Phase to pin 2, Neutral to pin 10
  • Power into pin 5 and 2 makes the output run forever until short-circuited. I think I've heard this called an Inhibit function which allows the Timer to pause and force power through pin 6. In the clamp instance this forces the clamp closed, lets the inject sequence run, and then allows the Timer to run before cutting power and releasing the clamp.
  • Pin 6 is the only output. This runs to the 5/2 solenoid valves and changes the valve position for either inject or clamp
  • Timer appears to be a Power Off Delay or similar as it only tells it when to cut power off

Diagrams that I've mapped to help explain how the Timers work and current wiring:
[ElectriciansForums.net] 1950s IM Power Relay Timer Help for Solenoid Valves


[ElectriciansForums.net] 1950s IM Power Relay Timer Help for Solenoid Valves


If you need any more info I'm happy to provide. And even if you are just interested in the machine I can post pictures of that also :)

Thanks
Murdoch
 
I also took a look inside one of the old timers which you might find interesting. I was just confused...
 

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My thanks to Marconi too, this is often the sort of thread that I get deeply stuck into but having been ill I haven't been around much, so I am pleased he was able to help in detail.

The original timer is interesting but not 1950s. The components suggest early late 60s / early 70s. The active guts including probably a couple of transistors are inside the flat grey module between the power transformer and the relay. The transformer powers the module and relay coil via the red BY123 bridge rectifier and smoothing capacitor (the smaller of the two electrolytics). The RC timing circuit probably comprises the 100μF electrolytic, the control pot, the 2.2kΩ resistor and the full-scale setting preset. The set of relay contacts nearest the module are tied into the timing circuit, I can't see in what way, either to provide hysteresis or a discharge path.

If the Japanese-made Rubycon electrolytic is original it is a hint at the location where the timer was assembled. The other electrolytic, 2.2kΩ resistor and possibly the rectifier are Philips parts made in the Netherlands. It's unusual to see Asian and European capacitors side-by-side in the same device in Asia or Europe, but much more likely that a manufacturer in NZ or Aus would buy parts from both continents as suited their requirements. I wonder who made the grey module? Any ID on it?
 
That probably makes sense. The machine is from England. Though one timer had a marking being manufactured in Auckland NZ. So likely the original English timers were replaced a decade or two later in NZ. And now more decades on 2022 (or year manufactured) replaced timers :)

Sounds like you are very knowledgeable in this area Lucien!
 

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