Higher amps in my garage

barisk · May 8, 2022

Hi ,

I’ve just bought a welder i will attach specifications and i has a round pin power adapter, how can i use that in my garage with a regular house socket . I also found a convertor from 13a to 16a , not sure if that’s the way to do it . Many thanks

littlespark · May 8, 2022

Not really, as there’s a 13A fuse in that adaptor.
It might work a few times, but the fuse will go, or the 13A socket will overheat.

You should get a new 16A radial circuit run from your consumer unit to a dedicated 16A socket to match the plug on the welder.

Vortigern · May 8, 2022

Thinking about it, that adapter should not be allowed to be sold. The whole point of commando plugs and sockets is to stop exactly what that adapter will acheive i.e. plugging something higher rated into a a lesser rated socket.

marcuswareham · May 8, 2022

Vortigern said:
Thinking about it, that adapter should not be allowed to be sold. The whole point of commando plugs and sockets is to stop exactly what that adapter will acheive i.e. plugging something higher rated into a a lesser rated socket.

Thats not the point of a cee-form connector "commando" and the 13A plug has a fuse in for that reason, That connector has many uses with a higher IP rating than a 13A plug, Live events uses mostly cee-form connectors from 16A to 125A and many jumpers which go from a lower amperage male to a higher amperage female which are fine to use provided the correct over current protection is in place

telectrix · May 8, 2022

barisk said:
Hi ,

I’ve just bought a welder i will attach specifications and i has a round pin power adapter, how can i use that in my garage with a regular house socket . I also found a convertor from 13a to 16a , not sure if that’s the way to do it . Many thanks

need to see the spec of the welder before advising. if it's fitted with a blue round plug, must be 16A, so a dedicated 20A socket on a C type MCB looks favorite.

barisk · May 8, 2022

that’s the plug , do i have to get a different socket ?

ipf · May 8, 2022

I know of loads of single phase welders used via 13amp plugs/sockets...the main problem being regular replacement of 13 amp fuses. Presuming the wiring is to standard, it's still not ideal, especially looking at some of the many inappropriate methods used to 'upgrade' BS1362 fusing.

barisk · May 8, 2022

Thank you for replies, I’m very confused atm , what do i need to get to work it properly please ?

Lucien Nunes · May 8, 2022

According to the spec, it is intended to be supplied via either a 13A or 16A fuse. If that is correct it will work on any normal correctly-installed 13A socket using the adaptor.

As per @marcuswareham above it is customary in industry, events, outdoor environments etc. to fit 16A plugs for robustness, regardless of whether 16A is needed.

Julie. · May 8, 2022

barisk said:
Thank you for replies, I’m very confused atm , what do i need to get to work it properly please ?

You could use it with the adapter you pictured, or change the plug to a standard 13A type.

However this may result in a reduction of range, so if you are using 1mm, 2mm, 2.5mm, or 3mm rods you may be alright as typically you will set 3mm rods to run at 100 - 120A - this is likely to translate to less than 13A on the supply side. (Smaller rods would be lower current)

However, it's likely that if you try to run at higher currents for larger rods (towards the max of 202A), then this is likely to be greater than 13A on the supply side, and is not safe on 13A circuits, and will cause frequent fuse failures and potential issues as these overloads would stress the wiring.

Getting a dedicated 16A or 20A circuit installed would allow you to use the full range offered by the machine.

(Or use TIG or MIG rather than stick!!!)

barisk · May 9, 2022

Julie. said:
You could use it with the adapter you pictured, or change the plug to a standard 13A type.

However this may result in a reduction of range, so if you are using 1mm, 2mm, 2.5mm, or 3mm rods you may be alright as typically you will set 3mm rods to run at 100 - 120A - this is likely to translate to less than 13A on the supply side. (Smaller rods would be lower current)

However, it's likely that if you try to run at higher currents for larger rods (towards the max of 202A), then this is likely to be greater than 13A on the supply side, and is not safe on 13A circuits, and will cause frequent fuse failures and potential issues as these overloads would stress the wiring.

Getting a dedicated 16A or 20A circuit installed would allow you to use the full range offered by the machine.

(Or use TIG or MIG rather than stick!!!)

After seeing comments I was going to buy the convertor but you are saying I wouldn’t be able to use it full range of power

,as I understand i need to install a new industrial power socket to my garage to use this welder , i will attach a picture, can you please tell me what kind of wire to i need to use and do i need to get a breaker too? , many thanks

Carolina · May 9, 2022

Yes you should get the proper socket to use with the welder, as Vortigern said the adapter should not be sold. 16A is obviously more than 13A so if you bypass the fuse the regular sockets will eventually overheat as they're not rated for that much current.

I'm not in the UK so I don't know what their code says but for that kind of socket I'd use 20A socket, 4.0mm wiring and a 20amps B curve breaker. Again, this is what I would use, perhaps B curve isn't allowed in the UK so check what the code says.

littlespark · May 9, 2022

As @Lucien Nunes mentioned on #9, he’s checked the specs of that particular welder and manual states it can be used off 13A

There is no need for new circuit, but you would need to check what’s on the rest of the circuit you are plugging into, as to not overload it when using the welder.

13 to 16 adaptors are legal, and useful.
As mentioned earlier, theatres use them a lot… charging caravan battery’s at home etc

I’m using ones just now to check consumption of my own hot tub. We have a trailing meter that used to be used to monitor electric meters on a caravan site. Waterproof, calibrated and comes with a 16A plug and socket. The hot tub, 13A plug.
So its a 13/16 going to meter, then 16/13 onto tub.

It’s just a connector that can handle 16A if it needs to. The 13A fuse limits the load whether that is part of the adaptor, or whatever is plugged into the reverse adaptor.

Julie. · May 9, 2022

barisk said:
After seeing comments I was going to buy the convertor but you are saying I wouldn’t be able to use it full range of power ,as I understand i need to install a new industrial power socket to my garage to use this welder , i will attach a picture, can you please tell me what kind of wire to i need to use and do i need to get a breaker too? , many thanks

In simple terms you calculate the amps x voltage, and it must match on both sides of the welder.

So if you set the welder to 130A, and the welder has a welding voltage of 23V, then the output would be 130A x 23V (=2990) , given that the supply voltage is 230V then the input would be 13A x 230V (in order to also give 2990).

The problem is that we don't know the voltage output whilst welding - they may give an output voltage, but this is usually "open circuit " (typically 50v or so)

These welders are sold widely by many sellers, many of whom have not a clue about the actual electrical side of things.

There is no doubt that many people will have no use for the higher capacity and will use them on 13A circuits with no issue; depending upon the load duty, some will "get away with" using it for higher currents but for short times.

Would you really need more than 130A or so (3mm rods)

EDIT

Just done a quick search, this seller describes what is possible when using it on a 13A plug. (Around 150A - but may occasionally blow the fuse)

Guildea Welding & Engineering Supplies :: ARC MMA 166i 110-230V WELDING MACHINE

Julie. · May 9, 2022

Carolina said:
Yes you should get the proper socket to use with the welder, as Vortigern said the adapter should not be sold. 16A is obviously more than 13A so if you bypass the fuse the regular sockets will eventually overheat as they're not rated for that much current.

I'm not in the UK so I don't know what their code says but for that kind of socket I'd use 20A socket, 4.0mm wiring and a 20amps B curve breaker. Again, this is what I would use, perhaps B curve isn't allowed in the UK so check what the code says.

We do have B curve breakers, they are pretty much the standard.

The regulations also require a socket outlet like this has RCD (or RCBO) fitted.

Cable size is a bit more complicated for us as it doesn't just take account of the current, but the distance as well.
We have to ensure the voltage drop is within limits (so larger cable for longer lengths), in addition we have to ensure the breaker will operate in less than 0.4s upon a fault - so we have to check the loop impedance (Zs) - this depends on the utility supply and the circuit cables.

This is in addition to ensuring the actual current capacity is suitable (depending on how the cable is installed - within thermal insulation will reduce the capacity to 50% of surface run cables for example)

So we could use 2.5mm^2 but may need 4mm^2 depending upon the circumstances.

We don't have ""code"" here, we have the regulations (which are kind of backed up by law in a round about way)

And a direct law - a new circuit like suggested requires notification in England.