what coding would you give

James · May 25, 2022

Why is IP23 not suitable for the location?

littlespark · May 25, 2022

Well corroded, whatever IP rating it says it has.

James · May 25, 2022

littlespark said:
Well corroded, whatever IP rating it says it has.

Devils advocate says,
surface corrosion not affecting the structure or ip rating of the fitting.

brianmoooore · May 25, 2022

The only way you can condemn that fitting is to do an IR test after a day of misty rain, when it's not been turned on.

Doomed · May 25, 2022

See this is where I'm conflicted, to me the IP ratings suggest that 23 would not be suitable for long term outdoor use (in this climate), but the manufacturers have seemingly designed this as an outdoor light.

and yet later today went to fit some IP 45 lights in a soffit and got this:

[ElectriciansForums.net] what coding would you give

Doomed · May 25, 2022

Now if I had a bathroom where I could touch an exposed 240V lamp I would C2 the fitting, yet these lights we can't decide on.

C3 if out of reach, C2 for low level.
I dunno, going to sleep on it.

i=p/u · May 25, 2022

No need to get too technical on this, ip44 would be a must for me. And if you relating back to the early 90s where they aresimilar to social housing back door lights etc, well times have changed.

If he doesn't say anything, the next spark will.

brianmoooore · May 25, 2022

You can code them C2 for not being suitable for the environment, if that is your professional judgement (it would be mine), but you cannot code them C2 because they are only IPX3, unless they are in an extremely exposed place, because you cannot reasonably expect rain to fall at an angle of greater than 60 degrees to the vertical.

Pretty Mouth · May 26, 2022

Section 714 Outdoor lighting installations

714.512.2.105 Electrical equipment shall have, by construction or by installation, a degree of protection of at least IP33.

However,

714.1 The following are excluded:
(v) Luminaires fixed to the outside of a building and supplied directly from the internal wiring of that building

westward10 · May 26, 2022

Doomed said:
Now if I had a bathroom where I could touch an exposed 240V lamp I would C2 the fitting, yet these lights we can't decide on.

C3 if out of reach, C2 for low level.
I dunno, going to sleep on it.

Can you implement 'out of reach' as a measure of protection?
What reason is there to Code them what is the danger.

westward10 · May 26, 2022

i=p/u said:
No need to get too technical on this, ip44 would be a must for me. And if you relating back to the early 90s where they aresimilar to social housing back door lights etc, well times have changed.

If he doesn't say anything, the next spark will.

What you would and wouldn't do is something you can't apply.

Doomed · May 26, 2022

westward10 said:
Can you implement 'out of reach' as a measure of protection?
What reason is there to Code them what is the danger.

This is where regulations meet commen sense, if the fitting is lighting up the signs at first floor level (like most of them are) then fine, you need at least a ladder to reach them and therefore should know what your doing and at least wont be stood in a puddle of rain water.
The low level ones where a bored 12 year old could fiddle with and unscrew the lamp during a thunderstorm make me ponder the safety of it.
At which point I'm drifting into risk assessment rather them electrical testing.
Which I think I will do with this situation, rather then list it and code it I will detail it in the additional notes.

westward10 · May 26, 2022

Doomed said:
This is where regulations meet commen sense, if the fitting is lighting up the signs at first floor level (like most of them are) then fine, you need at least a ladder to reach them and therefore should know what your doing and at least wont be stood in a puddle of rain water.
The low level ones where a bored 12 year old could fiddle with and unscrew the lamp during a thunderstorm make me ponder the safety of it.
At which point I'm drifting into risk assessment rather them electrical testing.
Which I think I will do with this situation, rather then list it and code it I will detail it in the additional notes.

Do you apply this to any exposed lamp holder which have an exclusion when it comes to exposed live parts.

Doomed · May 26, 2022

westward10 said:
Do you apply this to any exposed lamp holder which have an exclusion when it comes to exposed live parts.

No, in a domestic setting little Timmy I see as the responsibility of its parents, in, say, a rental I may be more concerned about some wall lights.
In a commercial personally I think we should plan for the severely daft, there are some real morons around and they will try to blame others for their stupidity, but once again its how to frame this in the regulations that we have to follow.
(I never should of done that course on risk assessment)

When I was young and a complete arse I spent a few hours re-arranging the coloured lights from the fairy lights at a coastal resort into colour groups instead of alternating colours, this was back in the 240V no RCD days, no thought for the risks involved, just being a complete Timmy, I was the sort of person that we have to protect from themselves.

westward10 · May 26, 2022

Doomed said:
No, in a domestic setting little Timmy I see as the responsibility of its parents, in, say, a rental I may be more concerned about some wall lights.
In a commercial personally I think we should plan for the severely daft, there are some real morons around and they will try to blame others for their stupidity, but once again its how to frame this in the regulations that we have to follow.
(I never should of done that course on risk assessment)

When I was young and a complete arse I spent a few hours re-arranging the coloured lights from the fairy lights at a coastal resort into colour groups instead of alternating colours, this was back in the 240V no RCD days, no thought for the risks involved, just being a complete Timmy, I was the sort of person that we have to protect from themselves.

There is no difference Regulations don't state a location difference.

what coding would you give

James

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littlespark

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James

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brianmoooore

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Doomed

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Doomed

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i=p/u

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brianmoooore

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Pretty Mouth

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westward10

westward10

Doomed

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westward10

Doomed

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westward10

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