what coding would you give

Doomed · May 25, 2022

Outside walls with IP23 lights that even a short person like me can touch. (sign lights)
What coding would you give? I would be tempted with a C2 but these are recently fitted lights by a professional design company on the outside of a public use building, they couldn't of made such an error could they?
Makes me doubt myself sometimes.

littlespark · May 25, 2022

Equipment not chosen for IP suitability? Or however it’s worded.
Akin to a simple lampholder in a bathroom where it should be a sealed fitting.

C3 for improvement. C2 if they’re starting to decay badly already. (Photos)

bill01803 · May 25, 2022

IPx3 = Protected from water spray less than 60 degrees from vertical.
Is it raining up hill where you are?

brianmoooore · May 25, 2022

It's long been my opinion that the IP rating system regarding water ingress is far from suitable for the UK. It totally fails to take into account the typical UK sideways misty rain that effectively manages to fall upwards.

pirate · May 25, 2022

For those of us who live in Glasgow, it has been a long established fact that it "rains up in Aberdeen"...

littlespark · May 25, 2022

I’m still fighting over a roof on my extension that “only leaks when it’s raining and windy”

That’s some IP rating!

Wasn’t noticed until 4 months after completion, then has leaked at least once a year.
All those storms in the past 6 months hasn’t helped, and the roofer is blanking my calls

snowhead · May 25, 2022

Doomed said:
I would be tempted with a C2 but these are recently fitted lights by a professional design company on the outside of a public use building, they couldn't of made such an error could they?
Makes me doubt myself sometimes.

Anyone can make mistakes, in the world of engineering some huge blunders have been made by experts.
However it quite often involves a string of small errors, like design changes, where no-one stands back and re looks at the whole project.

Maybe the designers specced the light without checking the I.P and the installers said if that's what they want, that's what we'll fit.

Are you certain they are IP23?

snowhead · May 25, 2022

littlespark said:
I’m still fighting over a roof on my extension that “only leaks when it’s raining and windy”

And I bet you only see the water if you look for it.

i=p/u · May 25, 2022

C2 for me as the inspector, people may question it, but it's not wrong.

Doomed · May 25, 2022

snowhead said:
Anyone can make mistakes, in the world of engineering some huge blunders have been made by experts.
However it quite often involves a string of small errors, like design changes, where no-one stands back and re looks at the whole project.

Maybe the designers specced the light without checking the I.P and the installers said if that's what they want, that's what we'll fit.

Are you certain they are IP23?

They still have the sticker saying IP23 on them

Doomed · May 25, 2022

i=p/u · May 25, 2022

If says ip23, you know what todo, light not suitable for environment c2

westward10 · May 25, 2022

A lot of those swan neck sign lights are IP23. Where are you seeing a Code 2 if any Code aside from the fact they are suffering corrosion damage because they are tat.

i=p/u · May 25, 2022

Il decide as the inspector

westward.. ip44 for as minimum outside for me..

westward10 · May 25, 2022

i=p/u said:
Il decide as the inspector westward.. ip44 for as minimum outside for me..

What are you basing that upon because manufacturers of this style of luminare may be interested.

James · May 25, 2022

Why is IP23 not suitable for the location?

littlespark · May 25, 2022

Well corroded, whatever IP rating it says it has.

James · May 25, 2022

littlespark said:
Well corroded, whatever IP rating it says it has.

Devils advocate says,
surface corrosion not affecting the structure or ip rating of the fitting.

brianmoooore · May 25, 2022

The only way you can condemn that fitting is to do an IR test after a day of misty rain, when it's not been turned on.

Doomed · May 25, 2022

See this is where I'm conflicted, to me the IP ratings suggest that 23 would not be suitable for long term outdoor use (in this climate), but the manufacturers have seemingly designed this as an outdoor light.

and yet later today went to fit some IP 45 lights in a soffit and got this:

[ElectriciansForums.net] what coding would you give

Doomed · May 25, 2022

Now if I had a bathroom where I could touch an exposed 240V lamp I would C2 the fitting, yet these lights we can't decide on.

C3 if out of reach, C2 for low level.
I dunno, going to sleep on it.

i=p/u · May 25, 2022

No need to get too technical on this, ip44 would be a must for me. And if you relating back to the early 90s where they aresimilar to social housing back door lights etc, well times have changed.

If he doesn't say anything, the next spark will.

brianmoooore · May 25, 2022

You can code them C2 for not being suitable for the environment, if that is your professional judgement (it would be mine), but you cannot code them C2 because they are only IPX3, unless they are in an extremely exposed place, because you cannot reasonably expect rain to fall at an angle of greater than 60 degrees to the vertical.

Pretty Mouth · May 26, 2022

Section 714 Outdoor lighting installations

714.512.2.105 Electrical equipment shall have, by construction or by installation, a degree of protection of at least IP33.

However,

714.1 The following are excluded:
(v) Luminaires fixed to the outside of a building and supplied directly from the internal wiring of that building

westward10 · May 26, 2022

Doomed said:
Now if I had a bathroom where I could touch an exposed 240V lamp I would C2 the fitting, yet these lights we can't decide on.

C3 if out of reach, C2 for low level.
I dunno, going to sleep on it.

Can you implement 'out of reach' as a measure of protection?
What reason is there to Code them what is the danger.

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