twin and earth between block wall and dot dab - cable channels needed? | on ElectriciansForums

twin and earth between block wall and dot dab - cable channels needed?

Post new thread

Discuss twin and earth between block wall and dot dab - cable channels needed? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

D

Deuce

-
Joined
Dec 8, 2017
Messages
488
Reaction score
420
Location
Stamford
Hi all,

Our sparky has carried out first fix, twin and earth cables clipped to the block walls of our extension routed to each back box. His leaving instruction was to dot n dab the plasterboard over the cables - but he has laid them without plastic or steel cable channels and in such a manner that I'd have to re-route many of them to fit within channels.

Is it actually a requirement to use channels or is it fine to just put the plasterboard directly over the cables? I'm obviously thinking it's going to make it very easy for someone in the future to have a 'shocking' experience putting up shelves.. but much as I google the question I see many suggesting no protection or plastic channels - which of course a drill bit would shoot through anyway. I personally use a detector but I guess most do not.

What do the regs say about this? Elsewhere in the house I have found steel channels used, I can see the sense in them but in this instance, using them would pretty much require starting again.

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
A couple of photos to illustrate. The vertical cables could be put in channels with a bit of tweaking but the horizontal cables won't fit and would need re-laying to adjust sufficiently. Tbh I was surprised upon my return that he hadn't sent them through the joists above which were fully exposed at the time, which would have left just the vertical drops to each box to worry about - where future diy'ers might expect the cables to be. As it is the cables run around the top of the room in the same place someone might choose to put up a curtain rail.

[ElectriciansForums.net] twin and earth between block wall and dot dab - cable channels needed?

[ElectriciansForums.net] twin and earth between block wall and dot dab - cable channels needed?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Capping is used to protect cables at the plastering stage, it's not considered to protect them afterwards. It was used a lot when wet plastering was commonly used, but not so much since dot'n'dab became commonplace. It's not a requirement of the regs to use it anyway.

Running the cables round the top of the room like that is compliant (there's a 150mm zone at the top of the wall where it meets the ceiling that they can be run), but most sparks prefer to run them in the ceiling void where feasible. It does seem strange that your spark didn't take the opportunity to do this, it being accessible at the time of installation.

The only non compliant thing I see in the photos is in photo 1 - where the cables drop down and through the wall (presumably to external lighting), they are run outside permitted zones. To be fair to the installing spark, this can be difficult to achieve without having cables on display
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The 'channels' you are talking about are cable capping. It is to protect the cables during plastering.
As long as the cables are run in the correct zones, which they seem to be, there shouldn't be any problem with dot-dab.

edit......as explained in the above post by the bloke with the handsome gob....😉....who beat me to it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Pretty Mouth said:
Capping is used to protect cables at the plastering stage, it's not considered to protect them afterwards. It was used a lot when wet plastering was commonly used, but not so much since dot'n'dab became commonplace. It's not a requirement of the regs to use it anyway.

Running the cables round the top of the room like that is compliant (there's a 150mm zone at the top of the wall where it meets the ceiling that they can be run), but most sparks prefer to run them in the ceiling void where feasible. It does seem strange that your spark didn't take the opportunity to do this, it being accessible at the time of installation.

The only non compliant thing I see in the photos is in photo 1 - where the cables drop down and through the wall (presumably to external lighting), they are run outside permitted zones. To be fair to the installing spark, this can be difficult to achieve without having cables on display
Click to expand...

Thanks - much appreciated peace of mind!

Out of interest what is it about the cables going down and through the wall that is wrong? they would have to drop the same way if they were going to a socket/light switch. Is it that they then cross the cavity?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Deuce said:
Thanks - much appreciated peace of mind!

Out of interest what is it about the cables going down and through the wall that is wrong? they would have to drop the same way if they were going to a socket/light switch. Is it that they then cross the cavity?
Click to expand...

It's because they not in a prescribed zone. If they ran down to switch or socket then that would create such a zone. Havd a Google search and you will be able to find a diagram explaining the zones.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I think as you said the cables could have been installed through the joists when exposed, either way, if you or someone at a later date need to access the cables for any reason it won't be possible. Obviously, if there is a removable floor above the ceiling then that would be great. You may be able to pull a cable out of a vertical capping or channel as well at back boxes. Just remember when hanging things on the wall as there is not much cover depth. Sorry to be an old woman stating the obvious.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
DPG said:
It's because they not in a prescribed zone. If they ran down to switch or socket then that would create such a zone. Havd a Google search and you will be able to find a diagram explaining the zones.
Click to expand...
This is where it gets a bit silly IMO, you just cant avoid these situations, to keep compliant chop in a shallow box and blanking plate there is your prescribed zone, but who's going to want that. 😂
Just having a moan Daz off the beer trying to lose some timber. lol
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Pretty Mouth said:
The only non compliant thing I see in the photos is in photo 1 - where the cables drop down and through the wall (presumably to external lighting), they are run outside permitted zones. To be fair to the installing spark, this can be difficult to achieve without having cables on display
Click to expand...
I sometimes put a token bit of galv channel over drops like that. I know that it won't last long against a determined drill but it might make the bit slide long enough to make someone stop and think.
James said:
Prescribed zones project to opposite side of wall.
therefore if there is a light outside, you may reasonably expect a cable to run vertically on the other side of the wall.
Click to expand...
That's why my house looks like this:

[ElectriciansForums.net] twin and earth between block wall and dot dab - cable channels needed?


But seriously, there's a wall depth limit too.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
7029 dave said:
This is where it gets a bit silly IMO, you just cant avoid these situations, to keep compliant chop in a shallow box and blanking plate there is your prescribed zone, but who's going to want that. 😂
Just having a moan Daz off the beer trying to lose some timber. lol
Click to expand...

'Off the beer' is not a phrase I like the sound of!

Had a nice couple of pints of Dancing Dragonfly yesterday at the local spoons. A nice ale that one.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
James said:
Prescribed zones project to opposite side of wall.
therefore if there is a light outside, you may reasonably expect a cable to run vertically on the other side of the wall.
Click to expand...
Better have a look outside to see if there's a light anywhere before you hang that picture, eh? 🙃
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
James said:
Prescribed zones project to opposite side of wall.
therefore if there is a light outside, you may reasonably expect a cable to run vertically on the other side of the wall.
Click to expand...
We normally fit metal capping or oval tube, its just if you do have damage you have some chance to pull through, but only sparks seem to be aware of 150mm from ceiling, .. i personally think he is so booked up, they just tacked the ceiling,
I dont no any sparks would wire like that when they could have gone through joists.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Electro-tech said:
I think as you said the cables could have been installed through the joists when exposed, either way, if you or someone at a later date need to access the cables for any reason it won't be possible.
Click to expand...
There is likely to be some colourful language if a future spark pulls up the floor above to access cables, and not one in sight!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote

Reply to twin and earth between block wall and dot dab - cable channels needed? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar threads

woodster92
  • Question
Mechanical Protection for Tails between Meter Cupboards on outside wall
Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it.
Replies
4
Views
631
woodster92
woodster92
B
  • Question
Sub Mains to a Load Centre in a Domestic Dwelling
By retired electrician, I mean that I have retained my ticket but no longer do installation work. Thanks for the clarification. I missed that it...
Replies
2
Views
438
Brians4
B

Recommended Sponsor News

Quickwire Now Sponsor ElectriciansForums.net

I am sure you will join me in welcoming our newest sponsors of ElectriciansForums.net - Quickwire! They have decided to join us after seeing you guys discussing their products here. Now we have an expert on board that you can chat to @Quickwire-Sam who will be happy to answer your queries!

[ElectriciansForums.net] Quickwire Now Sponsor ElectriciansForums.net


@Quickwire-Sam said "At Quickwire, we're all about speed, safety, and reliability. We're a family-run business, and every Quickwire connector is proudly made right here in the UK, ensuring noticeable quality. In short, Quickwire is the fastest connection method on the market. Whether you're an experienced electrician or a DIY enthusiast, Quickwire makes electrical connections ridiculously quick and easy. We're passionate about blending British craftsmanship with innovation. If you have any questions or if there's any way we can help, please just ask me!"

Exclusive Forum Offer! Free euro 2024 wall chart for first 10 responses!

Hi everyone,

We have 10 exclusive Uheat EURO 2024 Wallcharts to giveaway for Electricians Forum Members! The first 10 people to reply YES to this thread - I will message and get them sent out to you just in time for this years tournament! GO GO GO

PCBWay Now Sponsor ElectriciansForums.net!!

I hope you will all join me in welcoming our newest sponsor to the forum PCBWay! You can contact their friendly people by sending a message to @PCBWay who will be happy to answer your queries.

Welcome to the community and thanks for your sponsorship!

[ElectriciansForums.net] PCBWay Now Sponsor ElectriciansForums.net!!

PCBWay provides services including PCB Prototype and batch Production, PCB Assembly (SMT), 3D Printing, CNC Machining, PCB Design, Electronics Modules Selling, etc. We are committed to meeting the needs of global makers from different industries in terms of quality, delivery, cost-effectiveness, and any other demanding requests in electronics.

[ElectriciansForums.net] PCBWay Now Sponsor ElectriciansForums.net!!

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top