Removing socket for overhead light fixture (Norway)

neuvilla · Aug 12, 2022

This is a rather basic question, so please accept my apologies. I couldn't find the right search term, and I thought my situation was a bit unique as I live in Norway. And thank you so much for any advice you can give to me, it's really appreciated.

In Norway, its quite common to have sockets at the top of the wall to plug ceiling lights into. However, I would like to wire a light fixture directly into the house mains electric circuit, rather than to have it plug into the socket. Photo and video are in the link below to show you what I'm dealing with.

https://Upload the image directly to the thread.com/a/E1zH8rC

First, can I just remove the socket and put in some sort of junction box in place of it? Then I can use that to connect the wires from the switch and the wires from the light fixture. I've said junction box, but is this the right name for what I need?

Second, what is best practice for the earth wire, as the light fixture doesn't need/have an earth.

Third, when doing all of this, do I need to switch off the relevant circuit at the circuit breaker, or can I just ensure the light switch is in the off position.

Thank you so much for any help you can give.

P.S. It is also common, or at least was in the past, in Norway to have unconcealed wires!

neuvilla · Aug 12, 2022

neuvilla said:
This is a rather basic question, so please accept my apologies. I couldn't find the right search term, and I thought my situation was a bit unique as I live in Norway. And thank you so much for any advice you can give to me, it's really appreciated.

In Norway, its quite common to have sockets at the top of the wall to plug ceiling lights into. However, I would like to wire a light fixture directly into the house mains electric circuit, rather than to have it plug into the socket. Photo and video are in the link below to show you what I'm dealing with.

https://Upload the image directly to the thread.com/a/E1zH8rC

First, can I just remove the socket and put in some sort of junction box in place of it? Then I can use that to connect the wires from the switch and the wires from the light fixture. I've said junction box, but is this the right name for what I need?

Second, what is best practice for the earth wire, as the light fixture doesn't need/have an earth.

Third, when doing all of this, do I need to switch off the relevant circuit at the circuit breaker, or can I just ensure the light switch is in the off position.

Thank you so much for any help you can give.

P.S. It is also common, or at least was in the past, in Norway to have unconcealed wires!

[ElectriciansForums.net] Removing socket for overhead light fixture (Norway)

Thanks for your help. I'm usually much better at IT than this! Anyway, in post below (waiting to be approved by moderators) there should be a video and photo.

Avo Mk8 · Aug 12, 2022

The link you have included doesn't seem to be a valid URL, at least not for me!
Can you use the "Attach files" button ?
(Or maybe that's not available to you as a new member??)

neuvilla · Aug 12, 2022

neuvilla said:
This is a rather basic question, so please accept my apologies. I couldn't find the right search term, and I thought my situation was a bit unique as I live in Norway. And thank you so much for any advice you can give to me, it's really appreciated.

In Norway, its quite common to have sockets at the top of the wall to plug ceiling lights into. However, I would like to wire a light fixture directly into the house mains electric circuit, rather than to have it plug into the socket. Photo and video are in the link below to show you what I'm dealing with.

https://Upload the image directly to the thread.com/a/E1zH8rC

First, can I just remove the socket and put in some sort of junction box in place of it? Then I can use that to connect the wires from the switch and the wires from the light fixture. I've said junction box, but is this the right name for what I need?

Second, what is best practice for the earth wire, as the light fixture doesn't need/have an earth.

Third, when doing all of this, do I need to switch off the relevant circuit at the circuit breaker, or can I just ensure the light switch is in the off position.

Thank you so much for any help you can give.

P.S. It is also common, or at least was in the past, in Norway to have unconcealed wires!

Avo Mk8 · Aug 12, 2022

neuvilla said:
This is a rather basic question, so please accept my apologies. I couldn't find the right search term, and I thought my situation was a bit unique as I live in Norway. And thank you so much for any advice you can give to me, it's really appreciated.

No need to apologise. Members of this forum are not supposed to give "step by step" instructions, really to preserve safety, but are always happy to help with general advice

neuvilla said:
In Norway, its quite common to have sockets at the top of the wall to plug ceiling lights into. However, I would like to wire a light fixture directly into the house mains electric circuit, rather than to have it plug into the socket. Photo and video are in the link below to show you what I'm dealing with.

thank you for posting those

neuvilla said:
First, can I just remove the socket and put in some sort of junction box in place of it? Then I can use that to connect the wires from the switch and the wires from the light fixture. I've said junction box, but is this the right name for what I need?

If this was the UK, one would probably use a 'Fused Connection unit' which is a switch and a fuse combined. The purpose to fuse down the connection to the capacity of the flex to the light, which is generally less than the fixed wiring capacity. And a switch to be able to isolate the supply to maintain the lamp.

However, with the caveat that I don't know your regulations, since it appears the flex on your lamp is similar to the size of the house wiring, and looking at the rest of your installation, it doesn't seem it will be made less safe by doing what you suggest. Indeed, since you are already running it via a socket apparently ready to fall off the wall, it would improve safety to make that a permanent connection.
Could you however tell us the rating of the fuse protecting that circuit?

neuvilla said:
Second, what is best practice for the earth wire, as the light fixture doesn't need/have an earth.

In the UK it's required to run the earth to the fixture, and in this situation leave it disconnected (safely isolated), so that if someone changes the light in the future, the earth is available. To me that metal light fitting looks a good candidate to have an earth connction, but if it has a box-in-a-box symbol on it (double insulated) you don't need to.

neuvilla said:
Third, when doing all of this, do I need to switch off the relevant circuit at the circuit breaker, or can I just ensure the light switch is in the off position.

You must switch it of at the mains circuit breaker. An electrician would then 'dead test' the circuit to make absolutely sure it was not live.

neuvilla said:
P.S. It is also common, or at least was in the past, in Norway to have unconcealed wires!

Also quite common in older houses in the UK

neuvilla · Aug 12, 2022

Avo Mk8 said:
No need to apologise. Members of this forum are not supposed to give "step by step" instructions, really to preserve safety, but are always happy to help with general advice

Thank you.

Avo Mk8 said:
thank you for posting those

If this was the UK, one would probably use a 'Fused Connection unit' which is a switch and a fuse combined. The purpose to fuse down the connection to the capacity of the flex to the light, which is generally less than the fixed wiring capacity. And a switch to be able to isolate the supply to maintain the lamp.

However, with the caveat that I don't know your regulations, since it appears the flex on your lamp is similar to the size of the house wiring, and looking at the rest of your installation, it doesn't seem it will be made less safe by doing what you suggest. Indeed, since you are already running it via a socket apparently ready to fall off the wall, it would improve safety to make that a permanent connection.
Could you however tell us the rating of the fuse protecting that circuit?

The fuse (a dii, bottle type) is 10 amps on this particular circuit.

Avo Mk8 said:
In the UK it's required to run the earth to the fixture, and in this situation leave it disconnected (safely isolated), so that if someone changes the light in the future, the earth is available. To me that metal light fitting looks a good candidate to have an earth connction, but if it has a box-in-a-box symbol on it (double insulated) you don't need to.

I forgot to mention that we're putting in a new light fixture, a new Ikea one, which I assume will be double insulated (but will check).

So, if I understand correctly, with this new light fixture, I could replace the socket with a 'junction box'? Then, I'd run the circuit wires into that, isolate the earth inside the junction box, and then run some new cable from that junction box to the new Ikea light fixture?

Avo Mk8 said:
You must switch it of at the mains circuit breaker. An electrician would then 'dead test' the circuit to make absolutely sure it was not live.

Thank you. Noted, and will do that.

Avo Mk8 said:
Also quite common in older houses in the UK

Avo Mk8 · Aug 12, 2022

neuvilla said:
The fuse (a dii, bottle type) is 10 amps on this particular circuit.

In that case, use the same gauge wire as the house wiring to connect between the 'junction box' and your new light.

neuvilla said:
So, if I understand correctly, with this new light fixture, I could replace the socket with a 'junction box'?

subject to above

neuvilla said:
Then, I'd run the circuit wires into that, isolate the earth inside the junction box, and then run some new cable from that junction box to the new Ikea light fixture?

Ideally you would continue the earth in the new cable from the junction box to the new light fixture, and isolate it there if not required!

neuvilla · Aug 12, 2022

Avo Mk8 said:
In that case, use the same gauge wire as the house wiring to connect between the 'junction box' and your new light.

subject to above

Ideally you would continue the earth in the new cable from the junction box to the new light fixture, and isolate it there if not required!

Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to give me this general advice. It's really appreciated.