EICR - Unsatisfactory - No RCD - C2

Surgite · Aug 15, 2022

Hi everyone, a bit more info based on the discussions.

The flat is on the ground floor, it has a small balcony but no outdoor sockets.

Someone asked for a photo of the board. This is the only one I have right now, I'll take a better photo with the board open.

[ElectriciansForums.net] EICR - Unsatisfactory - No RCD - C2

The seller of the property didn't provide an EICR or "electrical test certificate" as the solicitors called it. The flat was being let by the previous owner so I suspect it either was compliant at some point and/or they never bothered.

When getting quotes for the remedial works, should I just enquire about a new consumer unit? Does that cover the RCD protection?

Pretty Mouth · Aug 15, 2022

westward10 said:
None of these are Regulations though BS7671 is scant on advice for periodics and the Appendix where the report format is contained is informative.

Agreed, there's very little to the chapter. It does say in 653.1 that "
an Electrical Installation Condition Report based on the model given in Appendix 6 shall be produced", but the words 'based on' are a bit vague to me, not really offering any minimum expectations.

Surgite · Aug 15, 2022

I received a quote from the same electrician for the remedial works. It's £812.50 for "CMU (double stack) replacement" and includes a retest and EICR satisfactory certificate.

I'm not sure what CMU means, some type of consumer unit? Didn't find results online and the marketplace doesn't allow direct contact between the parties. As I'm new to this and have no point of reference, does this quote seem reasonable for the works?

Aaron b · Aug 15, 2022

It's the inspectors opinion and judgement on whether it's potentially dangerous, whilst there's guides they can't cover all scenarios. I don't see why you wouldn't bump a c3 upto a c2 if your opinion was that it needed correcting.

davesparks · Aug 15, 2022

Surgite said:
I received a quote from the same electrician for the remedial works. It's £812.50 for "CMU (double stack) replacement" and includes a retest and EICR satisfactory certificate.

View attachment 100490

I'm not sure what CMU means, some type of consumer unit? Didn't find results online and the marketplace doesn't allow direct contact between the parties. As I'm new to this and have no point of reference, does this quote seem reasonable for the works?

CMU? I've no idea, the item that will be replaced is a consumer unit (CU)

What do you mean by the marketplace?

It's impossible to say if that's a reasonable quote or not, the best thing to do is get a couple of quotes from other electricians and see how they compare.

littlespark · Aug 15, 2022

Surgite said:
I received a quote from the same electrician for the remedial works. It's £812.50 for "CMU (double stack) replacement" and includes a retest and EICR satisfactory certificate.

View attachment 100490

I'm not sure what CMU means, some type of consumer unit? Didn't find results online and the marketplace doesn't allow direct contact between the parties. As I'm new to this and have no point of reference, does this quote seem reasonable for the works?

I’m not sure what CMU means either “consumer main unit”?? I dunno.

I’d be a bit concerned about the meter tails resting on the metal trunking like that. (#31, for those not paying attention

)

timhoward · Aug 15, 2022

@Surgite is this property in London (as per your profile) or elsewhere? I'm just wondering if any forum members are nearby. It will also help assess the pricing as it does vary by region.

HappyHippyDad · Aug 15, 2022

Gosh, I can't remember the last time I disagreed with both westward and davesparks. I automatically feel I must be missing something, but I'm really not sure in this case.

I just can't see how an installation can be unsatisfactory if there is absolutely nothing dangerous, nothing whatsoever even potentially dangerous and absolutely nothing that needs looking into further because there's zero chance of it being dangerous. But it's still unsatisfactory.

With your argument of it not stating it in the regs, you could then still say it's unsatisfactory even if there were no codes at all.

Have you ever given an unsatisfactory like this? If so, could you explain how? Genuinely interested,

davesparks · Aug 15, 2022

HappyHippyDad said:
Have you ever given an unsatisfactory like this? If so, could you explain how? Genuinely interested,

No but I've had one where I debated it for quite some time and had a long chat about it with the guy who taught me.

5 year old stage lighting installation, probably around 100 circuits out of nearly 300 with unexpected IR readings ranging from 10 to 100 ish megohms, all stable readings no fluctuation.

So the readings comply, but they just don't make sense.

As its a stage lighting installation all of the circuits are terminated in sockets, no permanently installed equipment, neons etc to be messing with the test. The theatre was dark at the time (a theatre that is dark is one that has no show, so no set, lighting rig, completely empty stage)

The circuits in question are all in groups of six, and six is a magic number in this kind of installation. We use a lot of socapex connectors which are a 19 pin plug/socket system used to connect 6 circuits at a time. So I popped a panel open and disconnected one of these sockets and sure enough the low readings disappeared from the circuit.

Obviously not a C1 or C2, and no further investigation really necessary, so that leaves a possible C3 (also debatable) and the question of whether or not this is satisfactory.

nicebutdim · Aug 15, 2022

littlespark said:
I’d be a bit concerned about the meter tails resting on the metal trunking like that. (#31, for those not paying attention )

I can't enlarge the image on this device, but there's something raised from the trunking at the cable entry. Possibly a dust covered bush or grommet.

mainline · Aug 15, 2022

timhoward said:
I'm being ultra-pedantic now, just to get a point across!
If it was a first floor flat, and there were no sockets available for use outdoors, it could well perfectly comply with the 16th edition. I could decide to follow BPG4 to the letter. If I did there's a good chance it would end up with lots of C3's and no C2's. (Note that it says there is supplementary bonding present in the bathroom).

This doesn't change my view that the right thing to do is clearly to change the board, it's common sense.
(In car terms, I could get a Morris Marina (other cars are available) through an MOT and it be declared safe to drive on the road. I wouldn't want my daughter to learn to drive in something without ABS and airbags though. )

Marinas and morris minor had a tendency for the bottom ball joint to fall out, this especially happened more frequently with the arrival of the sleeping policemen.
Just saying

littlespark · Aug 15, 2022

nicebutdim said:
I can't enlarge the image on this device, but there's something raised from the trunking at the cable entry. Possibly a dust covered bush or grommet.

Actually... i was looking at it on a tiny phone screen, sitting in my van in the dark, waiting for a bus with.... and to me, looked like the top surface of trunking, a bit rusty... and the tails just resting on maybe a bit of T&E sheath being used as grommit strip.

Now seen it on laptop screen.... its fine.

Surgite · Aug 16, 2022

Took some better photos of the board. Also found out that CMU in this case means ConsuMer Unit, odd way to abbreviate it.

The cost of the dual stack board and components was said to be around £250. The flat is in London, E1.

davesparks · Aug 16, 2022

Well that is going to be a little more work than your average domestic CU replacement.
The chances of getting a new CU to fit the exact gap between the steel trunking and the (presumably steel) conduit beneath are pretty slim.

It would be interesting to see inside that CU and know what type of cable is in there.

westward10 · Aug 16, 2022

That is also a dual tariff board.

EICR - Unsatisfactory - No RCD - C2

Surgite

Pretty Mouth

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Surgite

Aaron b

davesparks

littlespark

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timhoward

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HappyHippyDad

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davesparks

nicebutdim

mainline

littlespark

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Surgite

davesparks

westward10

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