AFDD in 18th 2nd Amendment | Page 2 | on ElectriciansForums

AFDD in 18th 2nd Amendment

Discuss AFDD in 18th 2nd Amendment in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

Status
Not open for further replies.
But BS7671 does not reference BS476 either. So because something can pass a test defined in BS476 doesn't mean it meets the requirements of BS7671.
We all know what the intent of the reg is - but as currently worded, steel is effectively the only permissible material.
 
Simon47 said:
We all know what the intent of the reg is - but as currently worded, steel is effectively the only permissible material.
Click to expand...

The fact that some manufacturers are offering die-cast CUs suggests that they view metals other than steel as suitable.
 
John-SJW said:
18th 2nd amendment comes in, in Sept.
AFDDs are in it. To be fitted on socket circuits of 32A and above.
To be fitted in residential blocks of 6 floors and above, care homes and the likes.

Are these mandatory for everyone? If say you have a 17th edition CU, do you have to update to AFDD?

AFDDs integrated with an RCBO which appear the perfect fit and fix, but £150 each.


View attachment 96764

www.screwfix.com

Wylex NXS 25A 30mA SP & N Type B AFDD & RCBO

Order online at Screwfix.com. Effective protection against fires started by electric serial arc faults that cannot be detected by MCBs, RCBOs or RCDs. Combined with a miniature RCBO, providing total isolation in the event of a fault being detected. FREE next day delivery available, free...
www.screwfix.com
Click to expand...
Socket circuits not exceding 32a John.
 
davesparks said:
The fact that some manufacturers are offering die-cast CUs suggests that they view metals other than steel as suitable.
Click to expand...
Die cast in what ? OK, sloppy use of words, but "steel" is shorter to write than "ferrous metal" - I'm assuming you mean die cast iron - plastic CU cases are die cast, as are many aluminium boxes (obviously excluding ones that are folded from flat sheet), ...
pc1966 said:
Look up chlorine trifluoride.
Click to expand...
No I hadn't heard of that, and no I don't intend to experiment with it 😱 So that demonstrates that without a definition of "non combustible", not even concrete or rock (which would traditionally be classed as non-combustible) can't truly be said to comply. And the answer to "is it combustible" remains the counter question "under what conditions ?"
 
Simon47 said:
Die cast in what ? OK, sloppy use of words, but "steel" is shorter to write than "ferrous metal" - I'm assuming you mean die cast iron - plastic CU cases are die cast, as are many aluminium boxes (obviously excluding ones that are folded from flat sheet), ...
Click to expand...

I don't know what metal they are specifically but the have the feel of, and drill like, the kind of metal boxes that are often sold as just 'die cast project boxes'. I think they are usualy some aluminium/zinc/magnesium based alloy but don't know for sure.
 
Aluminium is "interesting".
Having looked it up, it's classed as non-combustible as a solid - but I think we're all aware that if you do get it going, which is a lot easier in powder form, then it takes off big time (c.f. Thermite). But again, because BS7671 doesn't specify how "non-combustible" is determined (e.g. by reference to existing standards), there's no objective way of saying aluminium complies with the regulation.

But having said that, die-cast aluminium CUs would be quite nice to work with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPG
Diecast aluminium can be nice to work with, but it can also easily crack if mistreated trying to put in a big hole, etc.

Realistically pressed steel sheet is the cheapest and easiest solution to making a CU fire-containing, though some plastics would also be an option (but probably more expensive).
 
Simon47 said:
Aluminium is "interesting".
Having looked it up, it's classed as non-combustible as a solid - but I think we're all aware that if you do get it going, which is a lot easier in powder form, then it takes off big time (c.f. Thermite). But again, because BS7671 doesn't specify how "non-combustible" is determined (e.g. by reference to existing standards), there's no objective way of saying aluminium complies with the regulation.

But having said that, die-cast aluminium CUs would be quite nice to work with.
Click to expand...
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal, e.g. steel, is deemed to be an example

Aluminium is a non-ferrous metal


The regs point is that the enclosure be non-combustible, if a manufacture produces a consumer unit and specify that it's non-combustible then I can't see any reason for not using it.
 
Last edited:
If they specify that it's non-combustible to the standard specified by BS7671, no problem. Now which standard does BS7671 reference 🙄
 
Simon47 said:
If they specify that it's non-combustible to the standard specified by BS7671, no problem. Now which standard does BS7671 reference 🙄
Click to expand...

They also don't specify a standard for steel ones either.
 
No, but they specified that its deemed to comply - therefore using steel (or any other ferrous metal) complies with the regs.
 
Simon47 said:
No, but they specified that its deemed to comply - therefore using steel (or any other ferrous metal) complies with the regs.
Click to expand...

They only deem it to be an example of a non-combustible material, they don't say “steel complies”.
 
The practical effect of the wording is that they say exactly that. Is there any other interpretation of "You must use X, ferrous metal is deemed to be X" other than "using ferrous metal complies with the requirement to use X" ? Since steel is a ferrous metal, then using it is deemed to comply because the note says it does - there is no scope for doubt since ferrous metal is by definition one based on iron, and steel is an alloy composed mainly of iron.

Though I suppose you could go down the rabbit hole of pointing out that they don't define what ferrous metal is ...
 
mainline said:
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal, e.g. steel, is deemed to be an example

Aluminium is a non-ferrous metal


The regs point is that the enclosure be non-combustible, if a manufacture produces a consumer unit and specify that it's non-combustible then I can't see any reason for not using it.
Click to expand...
Cast Aluminium, available from screwstation.

Are these compliant?

[ElectriciansForums.net] AFDD in 18th 2nd Amendment
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Reply to AFDD in 18th 2nd Amendment in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

News and Offers from Sponsors

Electrical2go
  • Sticky
  • Article
📢 Best Sellers Catalogue Now Available! 📢
Wicked I've just actually looked through it and it's very smart. Some good stuff in it. There's a tile association company that do a magazine...
Replies
2
Views
309
Dan
Dan
Dan
  • Article
The Official Sponsors of ElectriciansForums - There are currently 8
OFFICIAL SPONSORS These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then...
Replies
0
Views
290
Dan
Dan
Electrical2go
  • Article
Weekend Offer: Haverland Heater Sale! 🔥
Hi everyone, Another weekend, another sale! Get ready for colder days with Haverland Radiators, combining efficiency with modern design. Keep...
Replies
0
Views
356
Electrical2go
Electrical2go

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top