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JimCee

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Hi,
My son has just (last week) had a rewire done on his house in Leyland. He has just bought the house but a "domino" type consumer unit was spotted and so a rewire was deemed necessary.
He wanted to move in with his girlfriend and 2 month old son as quickly as possible so phoned a website to get electricians to call him with quotes based on the job being done ASAP.
Electrician gave him a quote £3000 and he accepted - work could be done the following week. The day arrived and was completed in the day by "a load of very young people" and the house was in a right state.
They have run 4 spurs in the house which I thought was pretty poor for a rewire and I don't know if this is to regulations.
But the real problem came when I was reboarding the loft. There were a load of chopped wires in the way of the boards so I pulled them back as far as possible and cut them further back. Whilst pulling the wires, the skirting board fell off. Behind the skirting board, there was a hole in the plaster board and an old fashioned connection block (with screws) fell out as did the ends of 2 conductors. One of the 3 wires that came out of this block was in the way of the boards. As conductors had dropped out, obviously an old wire I thought and so started cutting it with my electrical cutters and the upstairs socket ring tripped.
On investigation, the new upstairs socket ring has been cut, the earth conductors cut back - breaking the earth ring, the positive and neutral conductors having been pushed into the connector but not screwed down properly and the cable that I had cut - upon tracing was actually an open live cable - just lying under the loft insulation.
Looking round, the new lighting circuit has been extended - also by means of an old fashioned type connector block with screws in and taped up.
I was furious and phoned the electrician who between my rants told me that it was perfectly reasonable to extend the lighting circuit by means of a taped up connector block with screws to secure the conductors.
The electrician has given my son an electrical certificate (which I haven't seen and probably wouldn't understand) but on reading info on the internet, I cannot understand how he has done a test with the earth conductors on the upstairs ring being cut back at the loose connection block breaking the circuit.
The guy is coming back on Monday to "have a look what is going on" but apart from being outright dangerous with an open ended live cable, are the old fashioned screw type connector blocks acceptable - whether taped or un-taped, are spurs to standard and can I report this guy and if so, who to?
Thanks for any advice,
Jim.
 
i think 20A radials x3 is a bit mean for a house, especially a kitchen.
I think it could be quite a bold choice considering the ease with which a 32A socket circuit could have been installed
My thoughts exactly. If the dishwasher or washing machine is heating, putting on the microwave and kettle will push the circuit into overload. OK it probably won't trip, but I bet the OP was not expecting to get, as part of a rewire, a circuit that is likely to be overloaded. If the previous circuit was a ring, this is a downgrade to save one run of cable and a bit of testing time.

Agree with the above comment that the CU doesn't look bad at all and suggests the person who did it is competent. But the devil is in the detail. Untidy wiring doesn't in itself cause fires, incorrectly torqued terminals do, and we can't see that from here.

It is possible, and I have seen this first hand, that there was one less-competent person on the team who let the standard down and the best of it is fine. Also that the said less competent person tried to hide his mistakes from the boss, hence possibly a hidden terminal block where he ran a cable in too short etc. Bare live cable ends smack of someone in a hurry who didn't check what was being terminated where.
 
My thoughts exactly. If the dishwasher or washing machine is heating, putting on the microwave and kettle will push the circuit into overload. OK it probably won't trip, but I bet the OP was not expecting to get, as part of a rewire, a circuit that is likely to be overloaded. If the previous circuit was a ring, this is a downgrade to save one run of cable and a bit of testing time.

Agree with the above comment that the CU doesn't look bad at all and suggests the person who did it is competent. But the devil is in the detail. Untidy wiring doesn't in itself cause fires, incorrectly torqued terminals do, and we can't see that from here.

It is possible, and I have seen this first hand, that there was one less-competent person on the team who let the standard down and the best of it is fine. Also that the said less competent person tried to hide his mistakes from the boss, hence possibly a hidden terminal block where he ran a cable in too short etc. Bare live cable ends smack of someone in a hurry who didn't check what was being terminated where.
Could be the case - although when I phoned the boss he told me that these (in the picture) were allowed anywhere as long as they are taped up? This one obvs isn’t taped up though.
Also, do metal back boxes for the sockets have to be earthed out still?
A mate has said he needs to give me a building regs cert, do you know if this is right?
[ElectriciansForums.net] How not to standard is this rewire?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Could be the case - although when I phoned the boss he told me that these (in the picture) were allowed anywhere as long as they are taped up? This one obvs isn’t taped up though.
Also, do metal back boxes for the sockets have to be earthed out still?
A mate has said he needs to give me a building regs cert, do you know if this is right?
They can be used if they are in a box of some kind with strain relief, and they also have to be accessible.
I think someone mentioned this previously.
Still pretty poor using them on a rewire. Maybe some at the switches for unused neutrals but that should mostly be all.
 
these (in the picture) were allowed anywhere as long as they are taped up?

Not true. as above, they need to be mounted in a suitable box with the cables anchored, and accessible for maintenance not boarded over. And the earth is not connected here which defies any sensible explanation and could result in some fittings not being earthed hence dangerous.

Does anyone think this looks like a mixture of 1.5 & 2.5 sqmm? What circuit configuration would warrant that, in this particular installation?
 
I believe someone called out a BG screefix special cu earlier in the thread? 😂
What do I win?! As is often the way with this type of thread they even left the unused MCBs in place instead of fitting blanks.

It's poor design to put the upstairs sockets and upstairs lights on the same RCD, and the same downstairs. Then again it's poor using a dual RCD consumer unit. With the Price of RCBOs being so low now I haven't fitted a dual RCD consumer unit in a very long time. It's much more convenient for the customer to lose 1 circuit during a fault, rather than half the house.

I don't see any AFDDs there so I'm not sure why the AFDD test button box has been ticked.

Again, there are only 2 RCDs to test so no reason not to fill in the tripping times, N/A is not a suitable entry.

He hasn't filled in what number of live conductors there are, again entering N/A. The supply fuse is unlikely to have a breaking capacity of 100KA. The main switch is a 60947-3 not 60947 type b (whatever that is). He has put N/A for earthing conductor and bonding conductor continuity checks, both types of conductor are present so they should have been checked and both boxes ticked.

He has ticked that he has checked parallel or switched alternative sources of supply, yet this installation has neither.

He has ticked that he has checked prosumer's electrical installation, again this doesn't apply to this installation.

He has ticked that he has checked a number of different items in the Essential Tests section several there will not be applicable and several he has ticked as carried out have no results entered in the schedule of test results section.

The certificate is pretty much worthless (except as evidence in court!)

Can I kick off with a design question? What do we think about 20A for the kitchen with no separate appliance circuit(s)?
Think of all the money saved in cable by not connecting the last socket back to the MCB! I would be OK with the house sockets being on 20A, but the kitchen would be pushing it, unless it only has 1 large appliance.

As there are no ring finals that also means a lot less tests need to be carried out, so no excuses for not doing insulation resistance and RCD tests.
 
What do I win?! As is often the way with this type of thread they even left the unused MCBs in place instead of fitting blanks.

It's poor design to put the upstairs sockets and upstairs lights on the same RCD, and the same downstairs. Then again it's poor using a dual RCD consumer unit. With the Price of RCBOs being so low now I haven't fitted a dual RCD consumer unit in a very long time. It's much more convenient for the customer to lose 1 circuit during a fault, rather than half the house.

I don't see any AFDDs there so I'm not sure why the AFDD test button box has been ticked.

Again, there are only 2 RCDs to test so no reason not to fill in the tripping times, N/A is not a suitable entry.

He hasn't filled in what number of live conductors there are, again entering N/A. The supply fuse is unlikely to have a breaking capacity of 100KA. The main switch is a 60947-3 not 60947 type b (whatever that is). He has put N/A for earthing conductor and bonding conductor continuity checks, both types of conductor are present so they should have been checked and both boxes ticked.

He has ticked that he has checked parallel or switched alternative sources of supply, yet this installation has neither.

He has ticked that he has checked prosumer's electrical installation, again this doesn't apply to this installation.

He has ticked that he has checked a number of different items in the Essential Tests section several there will not be applicable and several he has ticked as carried out have no results entered in the schedule of test results section.

The certificate is pretty much worthless (except as evidence in court!)


Think of all the money saved in cable by not connecting the last socket back to the MCB! I would be OK with the house sockets being on 20A, but the kitchen would be pushing it, unless it only has 1 large appliance.

As there are no ring finals that also means a lot less tests need to be carried out, so no excuses for not doing insulation resistance and RCD tests.
A mate of mine has said he doesn’t think dual RCD boards with a type ac RCD comply with regulations anymore? Do you know if this is the case?
What do you think my next steps are? He’s coming back tomorrow to look at what’s going on with the live wire & mechanical fittings…
 
A mate of mine has said he doesn’t think dual RCD boards with a type ac RCD comply with regulations anymore? Do you know if this is the case?
What do you think my next steps are? He’s coming back tomorrow to look at what’s going on with the live wire & mechanical fittings…
Your photos show Type A (not Type AC) RCCBs.
 
What has happened to the cpcs at those block connectors, just twisted together?
I would not be letting that individual touch that installation anymore in fact tell them you are seeking legal advice on how to proceed and this is exactly what you should do.
 
Well he does now - he said he’ll come sort it Monday but was trying to talk himself out of it on the phone - NAPIT is who hes registered with
Is his NAPIT number on the certificate? If so you can check it online here:
(Verify Operatives)
 
Not true. as above, they need to be mounted in a suitable box with the cables anchored, and accessible for maintenance not boarded over. And the earth is not connected here which defies any sensible explanation and could result in some fittings not being earthed hence dangerous.

Does anyone think this looks like a mixture of 1.5 & 2.5 sqmm? What circuit configuration would warrant that, in this particular installation?
First time I looked I wasn’t sure the cable on the right wasn’t 1.5? 🤔
 
Makes you wonder this thread, as when I swapped from stroma to Napit I was put right through the mill on my first annual…..how the hell has this clown done it? 🤷‍♂️😂

He must’ve shown em someone else’s job 😂
 
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That wire is in between 2 sockets in the loft - and the earth wires have just been cut off so unsure how he got his readings?
I would strongly suggest you seek legal advice on this.
 

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