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any use in looking for an employer to put me through the NVQ?

Discuss any use in looking for an employer to put me through the NVQ? in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net

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slippydippy

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i'm currently in a position alot of people are in, im 22 and currently hold the level 3 2365 and have about a year of industrial electrical experience.

my current company isn't really working out, and i really want to go for the NVQ. alot of the portfolio and the AM2 seem a bit intimatading, the idea of trying to fill everything while labouring as a mate seems like a tall order given you need to do everything in a year and half and there aren't to many companies that do everything. there are however occasionally apprentecip positions that pop up, obviously a company that offers one will be able to support me through the portfolio, but would they even bother taking on someone my age who has already completed college? Taking a smaller sallery would be totally fine for me, i just need to be working under a company that does the relivent work for the AM2 and NVQ.

my assumption is that this doesnt really happen and companies generally hire younger folk as they are cheaper and they get the tax breaks/levvys that come with hiring an apprentice

is my only real option working as a mate, company hopping and trying to fill everything in? or is there a realistic possibility of me finding an employer that can put me through an NVQ

any advice on the above would be great, cheers.
 
TL;DR
i have a level 3 2365 and im unsure as to whether i should wait around for an employer that can support me through the NVQ or just labour as a mate, doing it myself
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davesparks said:
It's a shame you've had a bad experience but please don't tar us all with the same brush, some of us do our best to help and support people who are learning.
Click to expand...
He asked how i found it so i gave my personal experience.
davesparks said:
The college side isn't there to teach practical skills, it is there to teach theory, science and regulations.
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I didn't say they were there to teach it, i said they didn't know anything about it. They would make statements about what you were and weren't allowed to do on site which were often wrong. One guy was convinced you weren't allowed to screw into steel beams because it would 'weaken' them and therefore you were never allowed to run cabling of any sort down anything but unistrut. The lads who were working knew he was full of it, but the college kids fresh out of school were being taught nonsense.

Also the science and theory isn't taught on a practical basis. They don't teach you how to apply the knowledge to make sensible choices at work, they teach it you from a purely book perspective. I passed science and principles but i'm fairly certain i'm never going to need to calculate the effect gravity is having on a load being moved to top scaffolding lifts via a stacker truck motor.
 
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swaRRR said:
They would make statements about what you were and weren't allowed to do on site which were often wrong. One guy was convinced you weren't allowed to screw into steel beams because it would 'weaken' them and therefore you were never allowed to run cabling of any sort down anything but unistrut.
Click to expand...

Obviously he is partially correct as you cannot just drill or screw into a steel beam anywhere you like, and holes in the wrong place in a steel beam can weaken it or start cracks.
 
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Aaron b said:
I'm pretty sure you need technical qualifications such as the City & Guilds 2360, 2351, 2330 or 2365 before you can enroll on the 2346 course.
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You need 5 years experience and you have to pass a skills scan and have your 18th edition and 2391-50 before the end of the NVQ for it to be signed off.
 
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swaRRR said:
You need 5 years experience and you have to pass a skills scan and have your 18th edition and 2391-50 before the end of the NVQ for it to be signed off.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you will blag that too but NET requires a level 2 or 3 qualification. You can't complete the 2346 without an AM2E.
 
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Aaron b said:
requires a level 2 or 3 qualification.
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Not true at all. Google 'experienced worker route' all the information is there. And yes you're right, at the end you must also do an AM2.

The info is exactly like i've said. You need to pass your initial verification and 18th edition before having the NVQ finalised. You need either a Level 3 qualification OR 5 years' experience to be able to do the NVQ. The Experienced Worker Route exists because it's specifically for those who don't have qualifications. Otherwise there'd be no need for it.
 
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swaRRR said:
Not true at all. Google 'experienced worker route' all the information is there. And yes you're right, at the end you must also do an AM2.

The info is exactly like i've said. You need to pass your initial verification and 18th edition before having the NVQ finalised. You need either a Level 3 qualification OR 5 years' experience to be able to do the NVQ. The Experienced Worker Route exists because it's specifically for those who don't have qualifications. Otherwise there'd be no need for it.
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It's for people that have a technical certificate but not completed an apprenticeship. I don't need to Google it. It's on the NET website! The 5 year experience isn't an option for the 2346 it's a requirement.
 
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Aaron b said:
It's for people that have a technical certificate but not completed an apprenticeship. I don't need to Google it. It's on the NET website! The 5 year experience isn't an option for the 2346 it's a requirement.
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Maybe you should google.

Experienced Worker Assessment | Electrotechnical Certification Scheme

The Electrotechnical Certification Scheme (ECS) accredits the qualifications and experience of workers in the electrotechnical industry
www.ecscard.org.uk

404 - Page Not Found | Electrotechnical Certification Scheme

The Electrotechnical Certification Scheme (ECS) accredits the qualifications and experience of workers in the electrotechnical industry
www.ecscard.org.uk

Please highlight where it says you need a level 3 technical cert (not including the 2391 which i've already stated you have to have before you can sign the NVQ off) to do this.
 
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swaRRR said:
Maybe you should google.

Experienced Worker Assessment | Electrotechnical Certification Scheme

The Electrotechnical Certification Scheme (ECS) accredits the qualifications and experience of workers in the electrotechnical industry
www.ecscard.org.uk

404 - Page Not Found | Electrotechnical Certification Scheme

The Electrotechnical Certification Scheme (ECS) accredits the qualifications and experience of workers in the electrotechnical industry
www.ecscard.org.uk

Please highlight where it says you need a level 3 technical cert (not including the 2391 which i've already stated you have to have before you can sign the NVQ off) to do this.
Click to expand...
I don't think arguing with you is helping the OP. You clearly know best! đź‘Ť
 
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Aaron b said:
Perhaps you will blag that too but NET requires a level 2 or 3 qualification. You can't complete the 2346 without an AM2E.
Click to expand...

He's right about not requiring a level 3 qualification for experienced worker route, but candidates must demonstrate knowledge, understanding and competence to the standard of the Level 3 apprenticeship. As you rightly state, AM2E is a requirement for completion and, similar to apprenticeship candidates, should weed out any who have managed to bluff their way to that point.


Edit: I should add that experienced worker assessment can be undertaken through a number of bodies, so it's quite possible that entry requirements are not the same for all of them.
 
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nicebutdim said:
He's right about not requiring a level 3 qualification for experienced worker route, but candidates must demonstrate knowledge, understanding and competence to the standard of the Level 3 apprenticeship. As you rightly state, AM2E is a requirement for completion and, similar to apprenticeship candidates, should weed out any who have managed to bluff their way to that point.
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I'm not quite sure what they mean but the NET website has this. As I said earlier perhaps if people are willing to lie they will be able to work around it. A lot of the providers mentioned a level 3. I can't see how you can show competency from working as a mate and not having any design responsibility.

Hopefully they tighten this back up.
 

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Aaron b said:
I'm not quite sure what they mean but the NET website has this. As I said earlier perhaps if people are willing to lie they will be able to work around it. A lot of the providers mentioned a level 3. I can't see how you can show competency from working as a mate and not having any design responsibility.

Hopefully they tighten this back up.
Click to expand...

About two weeks in to my apprenticeship, I was pulled into an office with my tutor and head of department and asked about my experience as they seemed to think the experienced worker route would have been a better option.

I was straight with them and told them that I had a fair bit of experience, but also huge gaps in my knowledge, and that it would have been difficult to prove that experience. After some back and forth, they eventually decided that an apprenticeship was indeed the correct option, but I could see the opportunity existed to take the experienced worker route. What it came down to for me was the desire to learn as much as possible - obviously the majority of this takes place on site, but I don't want to find myself struggling on down the line with a weak grounding in theory. I'm 25 (edit: 30) years late to this and I'll be damned if I don't finish up in the strongest possible position, not having people look down at me for stumbling when the going becomes tough.

One thing I'm absolutely certain of is that I wouldn't have undertaken some of the work I've done this past few months, if I'd got a job as a mate and gone the college route.

Getting back on track; it was from the C&G website that I learned what I'd posted previously.
 
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Aaron b said:
I'm not quite sure what they mean but the NET website has this. As I said earlier perhaps if people are willing to lie they will be able to work around it. A lot of the providers mentioned a level 3. I can't see how you can show competency from working as a mate and not having any design responsibility.

Hopefully they tighten this back up.
Click to expand...
'Qualification OR personal statement.'

Fairly clear imo.
 
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swaRRR said:
'Qualification OR personal statement.'

Fairly clear imo.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so quick with that statement.

While I can not attest to requirements laid down by each body involved with experienced worker assessments, C&G is quite clear on this point:

There are seven Level 3 Performance Units to be assessed before you can gain the Experienced Worker qualification:

  • Apply Practices and Procedures for Maintenance
  • Apply Health, Safety and Environmental Considerations
  • Organise and Oversee the Electrical Work Environment
  • Apply Design and Installation Practices and Procedures
  • Terminate and Connect Conductors
  • Inspect, Test and Commission Electrical Systems
  • Apply Fault Diagnosis and Rectification
To pass these units, you must provide evidence from a site of your previous work to demonstrate you can fully meet the performance requirements of each unit.



Ultimately candidates will need to provide evidence of all requirements necessary to gain NVQ and they'll need to demonstrate aforementioned knowledge, understanding and competence in order to pass the AM2(E).
 
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