Plastic board above entrance with bs1361 fuses only - no RCD protection. How would you code that?

zvspark · Oct 5, 2022

Hello engineers. I did EICR in two bed rented flat in a block of flats. There is old plastic fuseboard just above the entry door. There are only bs1361 fuses inside and no RCD. All luminaries are plastic.The board and wiring are in good condition. Any advise on how should i code that?

[ElectriciansForums.net] Plastic board above entrance with bs1361 fuses only - no RCD protection. How would you code that?

davesparks · Oct 5, 2022

What observation are you making that you want help to code?

pc1966 · Oct 5, 2022

For the board itself - no code as looks to be in good condition and no signs of thermal stress, etc.

As for the lack of RCD, that would normally be C3 assuming no outdoor (or likely feeding outdoor) sockets and if the bathroom has supplementary bonding as per regs of the time. Otherwise C2.

Good guidance in the Best Practice Guide #4 free from here:

https://www.----------------------------/professional-resources/best-practice-guides/

In particular the entries on pages 14 and 16.

Dumb founded · Oct 5, 2022

Personally I would code the board a C3. That is if the exit is the sole means of escape. If you find loose connections etc then it could warrant a C2. The best practice guide as pc1966 says is very good guidance.

zvspark · Oct 5, 2022

davesparks said:
What observation are you making that you want help to code?

The fact that the board is plastic and above the entrance. Also i am a bit confused about those old type 1361 fuses with no RCD. Now if we agree with the cx. that i need to fit RCD, is it good idea to fit RCD in cooperation with the existing fuses or i need to replace the whole board ?

zvspark · Oct 5, 2022

pc1966 said:
For the board itself - no code as looks to be in good condition and no signs of thermal stress, etc.

As for the lack of RCD, that would normally be C3 assuming no outdoor (or likely feeding outdoor) sockets and if the bathroom has supplementary bonding as per regs of the time. Otherwise C2.

Good guidance in the Best Practice Guide #4 free from here:

https://www.----------------------------/professional-resources/best-practice-guides/

In particular the entries on pages 14 and 16.

No outdoor sockets or equipment.
In the bathroom, i could not see any bonding, and measured between the sink tap and MET the resistance was about 2 ohms.
Also the screw on the switch on the circuit was open circuit to MET- no cpc.

davesparks · Oct 5, 2022

zvspark said:
The fact that the board is plastic and above the entrance. Also i am a bit confused about those old type 1361 fuses with no RCD. Now if we agree with the cx. that i need to fit RCD, is it good idea to fit RCD in cooperation with the existing fuses or i need to replace the whole board ?

The fact that the board is plastic does not warrant any code.
You can't advise on remedial work until you have completed the EICR, your job is to report on what is there, not create a jobs list.

What is RCD protection required for in this installation?
Is it for additional protection? If so then assuming everything else is in order it is almost certainly a C3.
Or are RCDs required for fault protection? If so then it may well be a C2.

Dumb founded · Oct 5, 2022

zvspark said:
The fact that the board is plastic and above the entrance. Also i am a bit confused about those old type 1361 fuses with no RCD. Now if we agree with the cx. that i need to fit RCD, is it good idea to fit RCD in cooperation with the existing fuses or i need to replace the whole board ?

As I say I would code the board a C3. Regarding the bs1361 fuses, provided the efli values are ok and meet the fault protection requirements and disconnection times they are fine.
With respect to rcd protection. If there is supplementary bonding present in the bathroom then C3.
If the use of mobile equipment outdoors can’t be plugged in and used C3.
Otherwise both the above would be C2 if the there is no supplementary bonding and outdoor equipment can be plugged and used outside.
Things like for example cables embedded within the walls at a depth not greater than 50mm would warrant a C3 unless the cables are appropriately protected, as when the wiring system was installed it may have complied with the current edition of bs7671. Without personally carrying out the test though it is difficult to code. As the tester you may identify certain risks within the installation that may warrant a C2.
If they wanted the board changing and rcd protection installing then I’d change the DB for a metal rcd/spd board. Hope that makes sense. I’m sure someone will pull me if I’ve missed something.

JBW175 · Oct 5, 2022

How tall is the block of flats? Is it a HRRB? Does it require AFDD’s under amendment 2?

Dumb founded · Oct 5, 2022

JBW175 said:
How tall is the block of flats? Is it a HRRB? Does it require AFDD’s

Dumb founded · Oct 5, 2022

If you are installing new circuits or replacing a db in a HRRB…yes an afdd shall be installed.
I believe on an eicr it would be a C3.

zvspark · Oct 5, 2022

JBW175 said:
How tall is the block of flats? Is it a HRRB? Does it require AFDD’s under amendment 2?

4 floors high

zvspark · Oct 5, 2022

Dumb founded said:
As I say I would code the board a C3. Regarding the bs1361 fuses, provided the efli values are ok and meet the fault protection requirements and disconnection times they are fine.
With respect to rcd protection. If there is supplementary bonding present in the bathroom then C3.
If the use of mobile equipment outdoors can’t be plugged in and used C3.
Otherwise both the above would be C2 if the there is no supplementary bonding and outdoor equipment can be plugged and used outside.
Things like for example cables embedded within the walls at a depth not greater than 50mm would warrant a C3 unless the cables are appropriately protected, as when the wiring system was installed it may have complied with the current edition of bs7671. Without personally carrying out the test though it is difficult to code. As the tester you may identify certain risks within the installation that may warrant a C2.
If they wanted the board changing and rcd protection installing then I’d change the DB for a metal rcd/spd board. Hope that makes sense. I’m sure someone will pull me if I’ve missed something.

Thanks mate, helpful info!

JBW175 · Oct 5, 2022

Dumb founded said:
If you are installing new circuits or replacing a db in a HRRB…yes an afdd shall be installed.
I believe on an eicr it would be a C3.

Even if adding a socket you’d need to too.

I agree with a C3 on an EICR, but I’d make a note recommending them.

Dumb founded · Oct 5, 2022

JBW175 said:
Even if adding a socket you’d need to too.

I agree with a C3 on an EICR, but I’d make a note recommending them.

Yes agree. If you are adding a socket then you need to comply with the current regs.

Plastic board above entrance with bs1361 fuses only - no RCD protection. How would you code that?

zvspark

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