Safely split ceiling lamp for three bulbs.

S

Spools

DIY
Hey all.

New here and new to 3 phase.
I had some electric experience on set in Los Angeles as a gaffer for a couple of years, but it was mainly single-phase - counting amps and avoiding blowing circuits type deal. Also did basic wiring in my old 73 chevy truck as well. So nothing huge.

But now, living in Austria, I'm met with 3 phase.

I have a kitchen ceiling unit that I'm looking to replace with a custom lamp.
(I've done some wood working and now looking to add 3 individual bulbs from this new unit as an overhead unit)

Question is, can I simply split the existing hot and ground three ways from the existing lamp directly to the respective three new bulbs/units I intend to have?
 
Avo Mk8 said:
Yes
(assuming you're not powering theatre lights 🤪)
Click to expand...
Haha - LED - under 60w each - dimmer at switch. Straight forward.

I suppose a better question is, what is the best way to split it?

Divy it up three ways, connect and shrink wrap?
I'm a bit of a perfectionist with this stuff and having trouble envisioning the cleanest way to do this.
 
Spools said:
Haha - LED - under 60w each - dimmer at switch. Straight forward.

I suppose a better question is, what is the best way to split it?

Divy it up three ways, connect and shrink wrap?
I'm a bit of a perfectionist with this stuff and having trouble envisioning the cleanest way to do this.
Click to expand...
Depending on the space available, what you can buy, and local practice, you might use push-in connectors as below
or the lever type (assuming your wires are the appropriate gauge!)
 
Instead of trying to split 1 wire into 3 wires,
go to the first light, cable in and a second cable out to the next light, rinse and repeat as necessary
 
Thanks, guys.
I curbed this project for a couple weeks, but back to wrap it up.

I like the plug and play idea of a connector.
Amazon.de is showing poor results - I see this here
But I don't like the design with how all of the hot is left, and all of neutral right for example.

I found this on google, which looks much cleaner as I can simple keep each L/N together for each lamp:
www.ledlightinghut.com

3 Way 2 Conductor Push-In Quick Connect Wire Splitter

Housing : Polyamide or PolypropyleneRated Voltage: 0-42V DCRated Current: Input: Max 9A; Output: Max 1.5AWire Capacity: 0.34-0.75mm2
www.ledlightinghut.com www.ledlightinghut.com

What do you guys think? Any thoughts on that product?
It's rated at 9amps... I can't imagine I'll draw nearly 20% of that on 230v.
 
The wagos already mentioned. I'm sure they're available throughout Europe.
I see you're in Austria, the only place I can now watch F1 live from, thanks to ORF and Servus, without paying exorbitant fees to that crook and general scumbag, Murdoch
 
brianmoooore said:
The wagos already mentioned. I'm sure they're available throughout Europe.
I see you're in Austria, the only place I can now watch F1 live from, thanks to ORF and Servus, without paying exorbitant fees to that crook and general scumbag, Murdoch
Click to expand...

Haha. I stay away from cable TV as I did in the states, but watch ORF and Servus at the in laws the same way Fox News hits my parents when I’m home.

My go to has always been SKY when watching games back in the states. I think they’re English though.
 
I receive ORF and Servus via the internet and synchronise it to a live sound commentary from an English radio station.
Sky is Murdoch, and they provide excellent coverage of F1, in exchange for many hundreds of GB pounds per year. Full F1 coverage is also available worldwide on F1TV, via the internet, at the very reasonable cost of about £60 per year, but this is blocked in the UK by Murdoch and Sky.
 
brianmoooore said:
The wagos already mentioned. I'm sure they're available throughout Europe.
I see you're in Austria, the only place I can now watch F1 live from, thanks to ORF and Servus, without paying exorbitant fees to that crook and general scumbag, Murdoch
Click to expand...

I'd be amazed if German made connectors were unavailable in Austria.
 
brianmoooore said:
I receive ORF and Servus via the internet and synchronise it to a live sound commentary from an English radio station.
Sky is Murdoch, and they provide excellent coverage of F1, in exchange for many hundreds of GB pounds per year. Full F1 coverage is also available worldwide on F1TV, via the internet, at the very reasonable cost of about £60 per year, but this is blocked in the UK by Murdoch and Sky.
Click to expand...
Murdoch had SKY too?! Sticky paws man…

I’m surprised the syncing works for you, but I’m glad it does! I would usually have a delay of a play or two when streaming NFL games.
 
nicebutdim said:
I'd be amazed if German made connectors were unavailable in Austria.
Click to expand...
You’d be surprised the trouble I have working my hobbies in Austria. There’s a boat load of rules and regulations when working on autos.

They don’t have nearly the same amount or similiar products for wood working at the local OBI (Home Depot.) I’ll have to go to a speciality store outside the city for contractors and even then, wood conditioner doesn’t exist, I had to make my own.

Electricity wise, let’s see, I never really got my hands dirty in this realm here yet. I tried out a dimmer in the office but, for whatever reason struggled. (That’s a different post altogether.)
 
Spools said:
You’d be surprised the trouble I have working my hobbies in Austria. There’s a boat load of rules and regulations when working on autos.

They don’t have nearly the same amount or similiar products for wood working at the local OBI (Home Depot.) I’ll have to go to a speciality store outside the city for contractors and even then, wood conditioner doesn’t exist, I had to make my own.

Electricity wise, let’s see, I never really got my hands dirty in this realm here yet. I tried out a dimmer in the office but, for whatever reason struggled. (That’s a different post altogether.)
Click to expand...

Wago connectors are widely used worldwide and extensively within Europe. While not all connectors are available in every market, I'd be confident that 773 (push fit for solid/coarse stranded conductors), 2273 (compact push fit for solid conductors) and 221 (lever type for solid/coarse stranded/fine stranded) ranges are available to you.

Edit: Also worth looking at their 224 range, which is specifically intended for lighting.
 
nicebutdim said:
Wago connectors are widely used worldwide and extensively within Europe. While not all connectors are available in every market, I'd be confident that 773 (push fit for solid/coarse stranded conductors), 2273 (compact push fit for solid conductors) and 221 (lever type for solid/coarse stranded/fine stranded) ranges are available to you.

Edit: Also worth looking at their 224 range, which is specifically intended for lighting.
Click to expand...
Thanks man.

This would all be easiest with a keyword or link for purchase. Anyone know of one?

I seem to be 'asking' 'researching' the wrong question when seeking this push connector/splitter online.
For example here, but I'm only finding one to one connectors.
 
Spools said:
Thanks man.

This would all be easiest with a keyword or link for purchase. Anyone know of one?

I seem to be 'asking' 'researching' the wrong question when seeking this push connector/splitter online.
For example here, but I'm only finding one to one connectors.
Click to expand...
Just type"Wago" and select the one you want!
and follow that with a number from post #16 if you want to narrow it down.

WAGO 222–415 gs605uk Hebel Cage Clamp Terminal Block Anschlüsse – Grau (5 Stück) : Amazon.de: Baumarkt

WAGO 222–415 gs605uk Hebel Cage Clamp Terminal Block Anschlüsse – Grau (5 Stück) : Amazon.de: Baumarkt
www.amazon.de

Or If you have solid conductors:
 
Last edited:
Spools said:
Thanks man.

This would all be easiest with a keyword or link for purchase. Anyone know of one?

I seem to be 'asking' 'researching' the wrong question when seeking this push connector/splitter online.
For example here, but I'm only finding one to one connectors.
Click to expand...

As above - google 'Wago' followed by the range number and you then just select the number of ways you need (i.e. the number of individual wires that need to be connected in common).
 
Avo Mk8 said:
Just type"Wago" and select the one you want!
and follow that with a number from post #16 if you want to narrow it down.

WAGO 222–415 gs605uk Hebel Cage Clamp Terminal Block Anschlüsse – Grau (5 Stück) : Amazon.de: Baumarkt

WAGO 222–415 gs605uk Hebel Cage Clamp Terminal Block Anschlüsse – Grau (5 Stück) : Amazon.de: Baumarkt
www.amazon.de

Or If you have solid conductors:
Click to expand...
Is the Amazon.de though going to suit my splitting needs? My naive self was envisioning more of a “spliter” configuration.

With the Amazon.de link here, would I be able to place L from the ceiling in one end and appropriately power three separate L for three bulbs on the other?

(I was under the impression that these connections were one to one where each of the four were separated. One for L, N, G…)
 
Spools said:
Is the Amazon.de though going to suit my splitting needs? My naive self was envisioning more of a “spliter” configuration.

With the Amazon.de link here, would I be able to place L from the ceiling in one end and appropriately power three separate L for three bulbs on the other?

(I was under the impression that these connections were one to one where each of the four were separated. One for L, N, G…)
Click to expand...

Yes you would use one connector for each conductor being spilt and place them in a suitable enclosure - dependent, of course, on Austrian wiring regulations. If splitting in three directions, then each incoming conductor would go in its own 4 way connector.

While ready made solutions exist, we don't know what sort of cable is being used and I'd be inclined to avoid no-name splitters sold on Amazon or eBay.
 
Spools said:
Is the Amazon.de though going to suit my splitting needs? My naive self was envisioning more of a “spliter” configuration.
Click to expand...
You are making it more complicated than it is.
Each Wago just connects all the incoming/outgoing wires together.
Unless you are insanely OCD, you don't need incoming on one side and outgoing on the other. The electrons won't mind - you just need to connect all the lives, or earths, or neutrals, each with a separate Wago thus:
(example for the neutrals, you need to do the same for lives and earths!)
EC6EC310-E401-4700-BE8E-CB782732728A.jpeg
 
Avo Mk8 said:
You are making it more complicated than it is.
Each Wago just connects all the incoming/outgoing wires together.
Unless you are insanely OCD, you don't need incoming on one side and outgoing on the other. The electrons won't mind - you just need to connect all the lives, or earths, or neutrals, each with a separate Wago thus:
(example for the neutrals, you need to do the same for lives and earths!)
View attachment 103443
Click to expand...
That one sentence helped me tremendously... "you don't need incoming on one side and outgoing on the other. The electrons won't mind"

And yeah, not OCD, but I am good at asking 5 questions to get 2 different confirmations on a topic I've never been proper mentored in - especially online.

So with all of that, if I were to grab two of these Wago connectors and just slam all of L in one and all of G in another, I would have me a solid set up then? As drawn in my 'professional' schematic below?
 

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No..

The neutral is used for the return path. The ground is a safety feature which should be connected to the metallic body of the fitting.
 
littlespark said:
No..

The neutral is used for the return path. The ground is a safety feature which should be connected to the metallic body of the fitting.
Click to expand...
Duh… This is why I ask many questions.

(In fairness, I slipped up there because the electrician that ran the wiring in my apartment didn’t exactly stick to the same color throughout)

But yes, you’re* absolutely right.

So, I’m swapping N for G in my schematic above, then I’m good to go?
(Ground cable is essentially “not used” for all light fixtures in the house)
 
Last edited:
Spools said:
(Ground cable is essentially “not used” for all light fixtures in the house)
Click to expand...
That is not the case in the UK. Regulations require the ground to be fed to each ceiling box where there will be a light. Then (in general terms), if a householder puts a metal light fitting up, they can connect the earth terminal on the fitting to the ground wire.
If any of your lights have a ground terminal then it should be used.
So if there are ground wires in your cables/conduit they should be connected together in a Wago just as the live and neutral will be.
I don't know what your regulations are on earthing, but it is a safety feature that you shouldn't ignore if it's supposed to be there!

And PS swapping N for G in your schematic is correct 👍
 
Makes sense.
In my truck, everything is always grounded.

Here, the ground cable is accessible, but hasn’t been used in any light fixtures in the apartment to date. As I’m the example of this unit here:2D8F1DAC-18C8-4812-8A02-1117E20B73E1.jpeg
 
Alright - Lamps arrived. They have grounds.
Can I just connect their grounds to the ground in the ceiling *assuming that's grounded on the other end?
 
brianmoooore said:
You're working under Austrian rules, but in the UK that assumption needs to be checked with the appropriate test equipment.
Click to expand...
I'll have to ask my Austrian buddy. Thankfully I have my mulitmeter 8,000 miles away in my LA storage unit.

But regardless of UK or Austria, is it common to plug G to G the same way you plug L to L and N to N when using push connectors for lamp fixtures in ceilings?
 
Spools said:
is it common to plug G to G the same way you plug L to L and N to N when using push connectors for lamp fixtures in ceilings?
Click to expand...
Yes, the grounds can be joined together in the same way as the lives and neutrals. The only difference is that the connector for the grounds isn't required to be inside an enclosure, like that for the lives and neutrals, but would normally be enclosed with the others.
 
brianmoooore said:
Yes, the grounds can be joined together in the same way as the lives and neutrals. The only difference is that the connector for the grounds isn't required to be inside an enclosure, like that for the lives and neutrals, but would normally be enclosed with the others.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I guess my next concern is the enclosure you're speaking of.

I don't have an enclosure for the Wago connectors.
I have an enclosure from the ceiling naturally for the extension cord I'll be connecting.

But once I get to the drift wood/lamp I've made, I was just going to neatly tuck the cabling out of sight (it hangs way overhead out of sight) Is it safe to just wrap the WAGO connector in electric tape?
 
Alright - tried to make it as clean as possible and it works great.
No housing for the WAGO connectors, but I wrapped em in a bit of electrical tape. What do you guys think?1.jpg
 

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We don’t know Austrian regs… so the need for an enclosure may not be the same as it is in UK. but the fact you can get WAGOs suggests you can get the boxes too.
 
Spools said:
Can you expand on the closure and why? What does the enclosure protect?
Click to expand...
One of the principles of electrical safety is that no single failure should cause a hazard.
So cables have two layers of insulation, on the individual wires, and then a sheath over.
And when you come to join cables, you put all the single insulated wires in a box to provide the second layer of insulation, and this also means that if a live wire were to come out of a Wago connector, it would be contained within the box, and not be a hazard to someone touching it.
So in the UK it is mandatory to put wire joints in a suitable insulated box, including all single insulated wires, and anchor the cables.
You should not be able to see the single insulated coloured wires, or the connectors.
I imagine the regulations are the same where you are!
 
littlespark said:
We don’t know Austrian regs… so the need for an enclosure may not be the same as it is in UK. but the fact you can get WAGOs suggests you can get the boxes too.
Click to expand...
OOPS, didn’t spot that the post related to Australia

the advice I have given is still sound, it would be safer if contained in a box.
however I can’t comment on the wiring regulations down under so it may or may not be a legal requirement.
 

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Spools

DIY
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Vienna, Austria
If you're a qualified, trainee, or retired electrician - Which country is it that your work will be / is / was aimed at?
All Other Countries (This Is English Speaking Website Only - WE don't mind Google Translate Users :)
What type of forum member are you?
DIY or Homeowner (Perhaps seeking pro advice, or an electrician)
If other, please explain
I was a gaffer on film sets in LA but never really used 3phase power until now where I live in Europe - looking for help on basic wiring around the home for lamps and dimmers/etc.

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Safely split ceiling lamp for three bulbs.
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