UK This can't be right???

Tazzy666uk · May 18, 2023

I run a hall , and one of the long term hirers has been using it a lot lately. I popped in there today and was extremely concerned about some wiring they have done (which they never asked to do either)…. I noticed that this hall user had wired a cable into one of our fuse boards. It was replaced 2 years ago to meet fire reg but now has a hole in the top (not the one they are using!… however, I traced this wire and it goes to a festoon stage socket….. that means there is a live cable on a 32A breaker going straight to a socket with no isolation other than the board which is up high…. This is wrong and dangerous and against regs? I am concerned for other hall users and think I need to get a qualified sparky in urgently. Would appreciate some thoughts. Thank You

mainline · May 18, 2023

Tazzy666uk said:
I run a hall , and one of the long term hirers has been using it a lot lately. I popped in there today and was extremely concerned about some wiring they have done (which they never asked to do either)…. I noticed that this hall user had wired a cable into one of our fuse boards. It was replaced 2 years ago to meet fire reg but now has a hole in the top (not the one they are using!… however, I traced this wire and it goes to a festoon stage socket….. that means there is a live cable on a 32A breaker going straight to a socket with no isolation other than the board which is up high…. This is wrong and dangerous and against regs? I am concerned for other hall users and think I need to get a qualified sparky in urgently. Would appreciate some thoughts. Thank You

Is the commando socket rated at 32 amp , The cable looks like it's at least 4mm

What's the blue cable at the top for ?

Can you do a pic of the top of the Consumer unit.

Choc blocks on the tails are not the sign of someone competent.

Tazzy666uk · May 18, 2023

mainline said:
Is the commando socket rated at 32 amp , The cable looks like it's at least 4mm

What's the blue cable at the top for ?

Can you do a pic of the top of the Consumer unit.

Choc blocks on the tails are not the sign of someone competent.

Thanks for replying. The Commando has 16A stamped on it.

The blue cable is theirs as well, and is an ethernet cable just passing by. My concern is that there is no isolation point and have a 32A breaker on the 16A socket

Tazzy666uk · May 18, 2023

Tazzy666uk said:
Thanks for replying. The Commando has 16A stamped on it.

The blue cable is theirs as well, and is an ethernet cable just passing by. My concern is that there is no isolation point and have a 32A breaker on the 16A socket

just to add, there is shed loads of stage lighting and equipment fed of this from multiple extension leads!

oscar21 · May 18, 2023

Again its my oppinion and I'm not stating an absolute fact but I don't think an isolation switch is needed for it to be compliant with the regs, I've always understood that there isn't a requirement for a cooker switch inbetween the MCB and the cooker so I doubt its needed for the socket. It certainly wouldn't be if it was fixed wiring, loads of commando sockets are fed directly from the mains.

Tazzy666uk · May 18, 2023

oscar21 said:
Again its my oppinion and I'm not stating an absolute fact but I don't think an isolation switch is needed for it to be compliant with the regs, I've always understood that there isn't a requirement for a cooker switch inbetween the MCB and the cooker so I doubt its needed for the socket. It certainly wouldn't be if it was fixed wiring, loads of commando sockets are fed directly from the mains.

Thanks Oscar. I am not an electrician, hence asking here, however and arguably, this cable is just floating around, and the only securing point is the gland at the box.... it is not fixed wiring. This hall is also open to members of the public, it is not a private/domestic building

mainline · May 18, 2023

Apart from the 32 being on a 16 commando, I can't see anything wrong

James · May 18, 2023

As noted above 32A breaker is not suitable for a 16A socket.
Is the board supposed to be mounted at 45 degrees?

I would prefer to see a socket mounted to the wall, if someone trips over that trailing lead then they could pull the board off the wall.

Edit: If the hall is being rented out commercially then you should have up to date test records for the electrical installation.

If you don't, then maybe now is a good time to get it organised?

Tazzy666uk · May 18, 2023

James said:
As noted above 32A breaker is not suitable for a 16A socket.
Is the board supposed to be mounted at 45 degrees?

I would prefer to see a socket mounted to the wall, if someone trips over that trailing lead then they could pull the board off the wall.

Edit: If the hall is being rented out commercially then you should have up to date test records for the electrical installation.

If you don't, then maybe now is a good time to get it organised?

Hi James, i agree re the socket.

the board is level, but a dodgy photo taken against a 45 degree sloped suspended ceiling.

It is tested every 5 years, and was replaced 2 years ago because the old board was plastic. This wiring was done recently by a hirer and without our knowledge - obviously we will take this up with them.

littlespark · May 18, 2023

Never mind how good or bad the work has been.

Someone has basically tampered with the installation without permission.

An EICR is required now to check it’s safe, at this idiots expense. If they want stage lighting, then they have a socket installed properly by a qualified electrician…. With the certificate to prove it’s done right.
You need this for you PL insurance, I’m sure.

I wouldn’t be too enamoured with the board anyway. As mentioned, connector block on the incoming tails is badger rough.

Oh, and put the cover back on.

Tazzy666uk · May 18, 2023

littlespark said:
Never mind how good or bad the work has been.

Someone has basically tampered with the installation without permission.

An EICR is required now to check it’s safe, at this idiots expense. If they want stage lighting, then they have a socket installed properly by a qualified electrician…. With the certificate to prove it’s done right.
You need this for you PL insurance, I’m sure.

I wouldn’t be too enamoured with the board anyway. As mentioned, connector block on the incoming tails is badger rough.

Oh, and put the cover back on.

Thanks Littlespark, appreciate the comments and agree 100%. In all my years, I have never seen anything like this done at our halls. We will be getting someone in to check it all. I now have to go and do some finger wagging. Cover was only off for 1 minute to get photo and main isolator to building switched off....

timhoward · May 18, 2023

mainline said:
What's the blue cable at the top for ?

I wondered that too. I was initially concerned there was 3 phase involved somewhere and only a 3 core cable had been fitted, etc. etc.
I agree, it's been messed with, it needs professionally checking and that muppet can pay for it.
Oh, and don't engage anyone to check it that quotes for less than at least a mornings work (at a minimum)

mainline · May 18, 2023

I wouldn't be using the same installer of the board to do the eicr either.

I am maybe wrong, but it looks like the supply tails run through the fabric of the building.
Also, I would be looking at the 32 which I assume is a ring final and an added 2.5 radial to ensure it's not capable of being overloaded.