How to fit this light batten

mo7 · May 31, 2023

Hi
Family member has moved into this house which is about 110 years old. Bodges everywhere inc the electrics. We are just rennovating it and when I took down the ceiling the light fitting broke

Can anyone offer advice on how to get this light fitting working for a couple of weeks? It will be replaced again but I need some light to do work in the room.

There were two black wires going into the old fitting - one of them snapped off. I have covered one in white tape - the other one has the brown tape on it

The earth and the reds were not fitted at all.

The white wires from the new fitting are not marked so I assume they go to L and N and it doesn't matter which?

brianmoooore · May 31, 2023

Whites from the lampholder go to the outermost terminals of the base, and it doesn't matter which way around.
The three reds go to the three terminals marked loop.
The green/yellows all go to the single terminal marked E (earth).
Two of the blacks go to the terminal marked N (neutral) and the other black goes to the terminal marked L (live).
The problem is determining which two of the blacks go to N and which goes to L.
If both grey and white cable was available, some electricians used both, so as to be able to distinguish which black was the one on it's own. If you are sure that the two blacks that are together now were together before (both from grey cables) then the one from the white cable is very likely to be the one that goes to L. It should have a short piece of red sleeving (or red tape) on it to identify it, but this can fall off.
If you have a means of checking continuity of an electrical circuit, the red and black of (probably) the white cable should be short circuit with the switch on and open circuit with it off.
Be sure that the power is off before doing this.

mo7 · May 31, 2023

Thanks.

The reds definitely were not connected before which is odd. What is the consequence of them not being connected? That this was on its on circuit?

The two blacks go into a terminal box thing and did come out as one wire - I am fairly sure that one broke off -

Yes the 2 blacks were definitely together before - they have some sort of connector joining them that then made it one cable (i.e old fitting just had 2 single black wires come in from either cable). That single wire broke off. So nothing stopping me just putting them together into the fitting as I don't have spare wire?

If I get the blacks the wrong way what will happen - the fuse board trips?

ipf · May 31, 2023

Are you saying that it wasn't connected as it is now when you started?

OH....you have disconnected the rose, or have found it disconnected.

Read brianmooore's post and look at the connection points. If you still can't understand what he is explaining, call an electrician.
If you don't understand, ignore his last paragraph about testing and leave it to a spark.

You mention 'bodges everywhere'. You could have plenty dangerous situations by the sound. One mistake could cost you dearly.

brianmoooore · May 31, 2023

When you say the reds were not connected, do you mean they weren't connected to the light fitting, but were connected together and taped up as they are now?

timhoward · May 31, 2023

brianmoooore said:
When you say the reds were not connected, do you mean they weren't connected to the light fitting, but were connected together and taped up as they are now?

I'm assuming that what is pictured is what was above, and there was once a further short black wire from the N block down into the fitting. He said one snapped off.
That then fits with the "two blacks were in the fitting" when he started.

ipf · May 31, 2023

brianmoooore said:
When you say the reds were not connected, do you mean they weren't connected to the light fitting, but were connected together and taped up as they are now?

That's what I thought at first, or not connected together, but it's obviously loop lives, however connected.....(or not)

mo7 · May 31, 2023

The reds were connected as they are now (i.e taped together)
The earth was as it is now

Neither of the above were fitted to the old light fitting terminals - they were just hanging. Only the blacks were connected to the old fitted.

Two black wires on one side became 1 single wire which snapped off. That single wire went into a terminal
The old single wire then went into a separate terminal

So tomorrow I will

Connect the earth
Connect the 3 reds to loop
Connect the 2 black wires into to N
Connect the 1 black to L

I spose whether the reds are connected by a terminal outside the fitting or within the fitting doesn't matter in terms of it working because they are connected?

mo7 · May 31, 2023

The reds were connected as they are now (i.e taped together)
The earth was as it is now

Neither of the above were fitted to the old light fitting terminals - they were just hanging. Only the blacks were connected to the old fitted.

Two black wires on one side became 1 single wire which snapped off. That single wire went into a terminal
The old single wire then went into a separate terminal

So tomorrow I will

Connect the earth
Connect the 3 reds to loop
Connect the 2 black wires into to N
Connect the 1 black to L

I spose whether the reds are connected by a terminal outside the fitting or within the fitting doesn't matter in terms of it working because they are connected?

brianmoooore · May 31, 2023

If the original fitting was an old style batten holder, then there would be no terminal provided for the three reds, or the earths, and they would normally be connected by individual pieces of strip connector, sandwiched between the lampholder and the pattress that it should have been mounted on.
The main reason for not continuing to use the strip connectors is lack of space inside the fitting. No unsheathed cable is permitted outside of the lampholder. The grey and the white outer sheaths of the cables must pass through the slot in the base, with all exposed red and black plastic inside the assembled holder.

ipf · May 31, 2023

mo7 said:
Connect the earth
Connect the 3 reds to loop
Connect the 2 black wires into to N
Connect the 1 black to L
I spose whether the reds are connected by a terminal outside the fitting or within the fitting doesn't matter in terms of it working because they are connected?

Dat's de way to do it.
Well worked out. Photo us the result.

mo7 · May 31, 2023

Thanks. I may just leave the red and earth cables out of the new one as it may cause more issues to disturb them. the space above is the loft and there is no insulation - so no interference. I'll have a proper look at it tomorrow.

brianmoooore · May 31, 2023

brianmoooore said:
I No unsheathed cable is permitted outside of the lampholder. The grey and the white outer sheaths of the cables must pass through the slot in the base, with all exposed red and black plastic inside the assembled holder.

ipf · May 31, 2023

mo7 said:
Thanks. I may just leave the red and earth cables out of the new one as it may cause more issues to disturb them. the space above is the loft and there is no insulation - so no interference. I'll have a proper look at it tomorrow.

No, use the terminals provided in the rose,. As previously stated all cables should be terminated correctly inside it, with no internal (black or red) insulation showing externally. Insulation tape isn't suitable to replace the external pvc.

mo7 · Jun 2, 2023

Thanks, tried this last night and got it working.

How to fit this light batten

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