Class II fitting modified by Electrician

heavywater · Sep 12, 2023

Hi all,

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician and have very basic knowledge of electrical installation.

We've been putting in a new kitchen into an apartment over the last couple of weeks and had a bit of a nightmare with the electrician. The firm is well rated and the guy we initially spoke to about the estimate (the owner I believe) was very knowledgeable but they seem to have quite a few sparks working for them and the straw we drew was pretty short. This specific question is about the light fitting and (lack of) installation, though it was by far the only thing we've had issues with...

The flat was built in the late 1960s and has concrete ceilings and walls made of pure obsidian, so when a rewire was done about 15 years ago (by the local council) it was all trunking and surface mount accessories. The light fitting is a powder coated metal four bar spotlight with the trunking running to it; ugly but not a lot that can be done without installing a suspended ceiling.

The electrician attempted to put the fitting up, running into obstacles at basically every point.

After the first fix, turning on the (old) kitchen light would trip the MCB immediately. He fixed it the next morning, explaining that it was "just" a loose cable in the (exposed) knockout box.
Instead of installing a junction box at the top of the trunking and running a single cable to the fitting, he ran four cables, needing a very large notch out of the side of the fitting (the notch is fine, we knew the fitting would have to be modified and we can cover it). Judging by the cleanness of the edges, he cut this notch using a hammer. He also notched it in a weird position, meaning that the fitting is about a metre off centre in the room.
He bundled the conductors into Wagos but had 3 lives and 4 neutrals each using a single 2 way connector. One of the neutrals pulled out when I just moved the wires.
The fitting is sold as Class II, he cut off the connector block inside (though I know people hate these), which I assume makes it Class I and requiring a CPC? There's no earth connector in the fitting and the whole thing is powder coated inside and out so it will be difficult to earth. Also, would Wagos bundled up inside the Class II fitting actually make it Class I anyway even if he hadn't cut that off?
When he cut off the connecting box, he mangled the cables. If I didn't know what happened I would assume the insulation and conductors had been chewed by a rat.
There was no grommet or protection over the metal cutout. I know this is required for knockout boxes/consumer units, but not sure about stuff like light fitting?
He was completely unable to fit the lights. We tried explaining to him that he probably needed to space the mounting plate a bit off the ceiling to give a bit of wiggle room for the fitting to slide over (1960s artexed ceilings with decades of previous light fittings are not known for being euclidean planes) but he explained that that would not help.

He gave up after two and a half hours of standing on his tiptoes and swearing and said it couldn't be fitted but he'd fit a different one for us if we bought one, which was good of him. I've put the fitting up by spacing it from the ceiling a bit, extending the conductors with some inline Wagos and the wires from some 2.5mm flex, and switching out the 2-way connectors for more appropriate ones.

The guy is supposed to be coming back at some point to certify the work, we're going to ask for someone else from the firm to do it (preferably the owner we spoke to before). How much of the above is an actual issue we should highlight when the work is certified and how much is me just being a picky sod?

Thanks!

DPG · Sep 12, 2023

heavywater said:
Hi all,

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician and have very basic knowledge of electrical installation.

We've been putting in a new kitchen into an apartment over the last couple of weeks and had a bit of a nightmare with the electrician. The firm is well rated and the guy we initially spoke to about the estimate (the owner I believe) was very knowledgeable but they seem to have quite a few sparks working for them and the straw we drew was pretty short. This specific question is about the light fitting and (lack of) installation, though it was by far the only thing we've had issues with...

The flat was built in the late 1960s and has concrete ceilings and walls made of pure obsidian, so when a rewire was done about 15 years ago (by the local council) it was all trunking and surface mount accessories. The light fitting is a powder coated metal four bar spotlight with the trunking running to it; ugly but not a lot that can be done without installing a suspended ceiling.

The electrician attempted to put the fitting up, running into obstacles at basically every point.

After the first fix, turning on the (old) kitchen light would trip the MCB immediately. He fixed it the next morning, explaining that it was "just" a loose cable in the (exposed) knockout box.

Instead of installing a junction box at the top of the trunking and running a single cable to the fitting, he ran four cables, needing a very large notch out of the side of the fitting (the notch is fine, we knew the fitting would have to be modified and we can cover it). Judging by the cleanness of the edges, he cut this notch using a hammer. He also notched it in a weird position, meaning that the fitting is about a metre off centre in the room.

He bundled the conductors into Wagos but had 3 lives and 4 neutrals each using a single 2 way connector. One of the neutrals pulled out when I just moved the wires.

The fitting is sold as Class II, he cut off the connector block inside (though I know people hate these), which I assume makes it Class I and requiring a CPC? There's no earth connector in the fitting and the whole thing is powder coated inside and out so it will be difficult to earth. Also, would Wagos bundled up inside the Class II fitting actually make it Class I anyway even if he hadn't cut that off?

When he cut off the connecting box, he mangled the cables. If I didn't know what happened I would assume the insulation and conductors had been chewed by a rat.

There was no grommet or protection over the metal cutout. I know this is required for knockout boxes/consumer units, but not sure about stuff like light fitting?

He was completely unable to fit the lights. We tried explaining to him that he probably needed to space the mounting plate a bit off the ceiling to give a bit of wiggle room for the fitting to slide over (1960s artexed ceilings with decades of previous light fittings are not known for being euclidean planes) but he explained that that would not help.

He gave up after two and a half hours of standing on his tiptoes and swearing and said it couldn't be fitted but he'd fit a different one for us if we bought one, which was good of him. I've put the fitting up by spacing it from the ceiling a bit, extending the conductors with some inline Wagos and the wires from some 2.5mm flex, and switching out the 2-way connectors for more appropriate ones.

The guy is supposed to be coming back at some point to certify the work, we're going to ask for someone else from the firm to do it (preferably the owner we spoke to before). How much of the above is an actual issue we should highlight when the work is certified and how much is me just being a picky sod?

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum. Great first post!

I'd get some photos posted to clarify things. And your therapist's report obviously.

heavywater · Sep 12, 2023

Unfortunately I'm not in the property again for a week or so and the only thing I had the foresight to take a picture of was the cable situation:

[ElectriciansForums.net] Class II fitting modified by Electrician

The mounting plate is visible at the top of that photo, and there's a barely visible bundle of earths he cropped short just sticking out of the trunking behind everything. The flex in that photo was running to a pendant fitting he put up just so there was some light in the room.

All those cables are now inside the fitting, earth is still not connected because I don't really know what (if anything) to connect it to as there are no exposed metal parts of the housing.

DPG · Sep 12, 2023

The earths are a worry yes. Continuity needs maintaining between all of those.

heavywater · Sep 12, 2023

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well! The earths are connected in a push-in connector, but there's no CPC to the housing.

I guess the main question I'm asking is if a CPC is required with the loose Wagos inside the housing given that the powder coating isn't conductive?
If it's now Class I (and I assume it is), is there any way to make this Class II (e.g. mummifying connectors, or placing them all in an additional enclosure)?
And if there's no other way around it, is there any good way of making a solid earth connection to power coated metal without leaving anything visible on the outside of the fitting (no bolt throughs)?

The fitting is this exact one (not my picture, weirdly it was an example used on a blog post about double insulated fittings).

mainline · Sep 12, 2023

heavywater said:
All those cables are now inside the fitting, earth is still not connected because I don't really know what (if anything) to connect it to as there are no exposed metal parts of the housing.

2 lever wago = 2 wires etc

heavywater · Sep 12, 2023

mainline said:
2 lever wago = 2 wires etc

Yeah, I moved the neutrals and lives into a 5-way and a 3-way before I put the fitting up.

westward10 · Sep 12, 2023

The fitting is Class II and this rating is maintained by correct installation of the fitting, he has not achieved this. What he has achieved is to make a complete hash of a straightforward task.

littlespark · Sep 13, 2023

You could insist the owner comes, and explain what a mess his guy has made of this.

Changing a class II to class I is bad enough, but to not attempt to earth the fitting is diabolical.

I’d expect some sort of Heath Robinson… a bit of earth wire with a ring crimp on the end, with the fixing screw tightened up would effectively earth the fitting ( if the main body was then screwed to the bracket)
But he hasn’t even done that.

Plastic joint box external to the fitting, and a 2 core into the (new, replacement) fitting with the class II crappy little connector box intact.

westward10 · Sep 13, 2023

But they haven't made it Class I, their failure to install correctly has compromised it's Class II protection. For it to become Class I they would have to certify it as such.

littlespark · Sep 13, 2023

westward10 said:
But they haven't made it Class I, their failure to install correctly has compromised it's Class II protection. For it to become Class I they would have to certify it as such.

Oh yes… what he did was way off, but he didn’t even attempt to earth it…. And if he had, it would still be wrong… but at least a little safer.

heavywater · Sep 13, 2023

Thanks all. The owner is coming out on Friday to review the situation, we have quite a few other issues with the install outside of the light fiasco, so it will be interesting to see what he says.

littlespark · Sep 14, 2023

Other issues?

Anything you wish to divulge further?

heavywater · Sep 14, 2023

littlespark said:
Other issues?

Anything you wish to divulge further?

He damaged the extractor fan when putting it up because he forced it when he couldn't get the clips to line up, the housing is chewed up and the bearing is out, so the whole thing vibrates. He also wired the earth into the switched live terminal for the boost (it's marked T so maybe he thought Terre? No clue).

He left about 1m slack on the flex running from the built-in cooker hood to the isolator, and fed that cable through the 150mm hole cut in the top box for the ducting instead of the hole drilled in the back corner for the cable. Not a massive deal, will take a few minutes to redo but I shouldn't have to.

He unilaterally decided to change a socket position from down the side of the fridge to in a wall cabinet. We explained to him well in advance that there would be a ~100mm gap that might be hard to work in, so maybe do that that socket on the first fix. We also then said we could pull the fridge cabinet out to give him space to work when he came back (we left it attached with only 2 screws because we were pretty sure it was going to need to come out). Apparently his solution was to move a socket meant for a vacuum cleaner into a cupboard at eye height.

And just in general, everything is wonky. Extractor fan, every isolator, almost every socket. Only by a little bit but it's just sloppy.

westward10 · Sep 14, 2023

Sounds like an unskilled person who I certainly wouldn't want back on site. Did he grunt and use his hands to communicate or could he actually speak?

Class II fitting modified by Electrician

heavywater

DPG

-

heavywater

DPG

-

heavywater

mainline

heavywater

westward10

littlespark

-

westward10

littlespark

-

heavywater

littlespark

-

heavywater

westward10

News and Offers from Sponsors

Similar threads

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

YOUR Unread Posts